Dr. Frank Mitloehner is a professor and air quality specialist in cooperative extension in the Department of Animal Science at UC Davis.
He shares his knowledge and research, both domestically and abroad, with students, scientists, farmers and ranchers, policy makers, and the public at large. Frank is also director of the CLEAR Center, which has two cores – research and communications. The CLEAR Center brings clarity to the intersection of animal agriculture and the environment, helping our global community understand the environmental and human health impacts of livestock, so we can make informed decisions about the foods we eat and while reducing environmental impacts.
Dr. Frank Mitloehner is a professor and air quality specialist in cooperative extension in the Department of Animal Science at UC Davis.
He shares his knowledge and research, both domestically and abroad, with students, scientists, farmers and ranchers, policy makers, and the public at large. Frank is also director of the CLEAR Center, which has two cores – research and communications. The CLEAR Center brings clarity to the intersection of animal agriculture and the environment, helping our global community understand the environmental and human health impacts of livestock, so we can make informed decisions about the foods we eat and while reducing environmental impacts.
Welcome to this episode 46 of Practically Ranching. I'm Matt Perrier, and we are finally back from a bit of an unplanned break from the pod. No, this isn't a new season there. It wasn't a writer's strike. I don't have any other type of Hollywood excuse. I just flat haven't had time to record and edit and post a podcast over the last six weeks or so. We had a big bull sail in November. We had more bull deliveries than ever before. We had some extra water hauling and feeding duties due to the drought that thankfully we've gotten a bit of a reprieve from over the last, uh, month or so. But the few weeks, um, have just been slammed. plus we threw in a fall AI and. I had to give my real job and my family priority, and so the podcast got shoved to the back burner. But we're back in action and I think you'll agree that this week's episode is gonna be worth the wait. Dr. Frank Lerner is a professor and air quality specialist at the University of California Davis. He's also director of the Clear Center, which stands for Clarity and Leadership for Environmental Awareness and Research, and you'll hear him give some of his personal path through the years. But although he immigrated from Germany, I think you'll quickly realize that he epitomizes an American researcher. He asks tough questions. He challenges paradigms. He tries to best represent the people for whom he works in a land grant agricultural school at uc Davis, as they are appropriately named the Aggies. We dive into a bunch of different topics here. He has lots more content across podcast Landia, so if you want to hear more info on any of these topics, or maybe just a more basic lecture that he has given There are plenty of places to find that. and I would suggest either Google searching or, or looking online. I have actually put one or two links in the notes section of this podcast, and I would encourage you to listen to that either before or after my conversation here with, with Dr. Mettler. And I also put some links to his work at the Clear Center that he's published as well. Now, depending on your politics or your age or any other identities and values that you may have, this may be another one of these podcasts that makes you just a little bit uneasy. Admittedly, I kind of had to take, take a deep breath before I did this interview because I'm one who believes that at least some of the narrative that has surrounded climate change and greenhouse gas emissions. Has been a bit overblown through the years, but whether you think that we're on the brink of climate, Armageddon, or you think it's all just a complete facade dreamt up by Al Gore and the mainstream media, I think you can appreciate Dr. Learner's Science-based, practical approach to the facts surrounding carbon and the byproducts of its use. Now, English was obviously not Frank's first language, but I think you'll find that he has mastered it through the decades and even more impressive. He's learned to speak another language that of the world's curious consumer who seeks to understand just how farmers and ranchers are stewarding the resources entrusted to their care while we are on this earth. So welcome back to Practically Ranching Merry Christmas, and thank you for joining me for this conversation with Dr. Frank Mittler.
Matt:Welcome Dr. Mettler to practically ranching. We appreciate you being on here. I think I saw that,
Track 1:um,
frank-m-m-mitloehner_2_12-18-2023_142851:that, um,
Matt:Maybe your travels recently took you to Dubai. Is that correct?
frank-m-m-mitloehner_2_12-18-2023_142851:Yeah, that's correct. Yeah. I attended the COP 28 meeting.
Matt:So how was, uh, how was that and how was Dubai?
frank-m-m-mitloehner_2_12-18-2023_142851:I have to say, uh, was very different than I expected. the meeting was announced as being centered largely around the impact of food on climate and, uh, that the people in developed countries in the world would be asked to drastically change what they eat, toward a more diet. And so I expected That kind of narrative, but it was totally different. Um, the meeting was well balanced and, um, what was very interesting was that I was asked to give two talks and I did this and the, the FAO at the same time the day after my talks released. The FAO is the Food and Agricultural Organization of the United Nations in Rome.
Track 1:Right.
frank-m-m-mitloehner_2_12-18-2023_142851:FAO released two reports and these two reports, were very, very, uh, interesting to me because what they said was pretty much exactly what I had said the previous day. So I had, uh, told the audience that I think, uh, what's really needed in animal agriculture is for the herd size growth or herd size expansions in some part of the world, particularly developed countries. what's really needed is that we become better at our efficiencies and productivities, that we make sure that, um, herd health is optimized. Nutrition, genetics, reproduction are the main Uh, not just here, but throughout the world with respect to shrinking the environmental footprint of livestock. I was blown away when I saw these FAO reports that completely concurred, and that also said that what the entire livestock and entire meet people have been proclaiming, namely, that we need to eat much less animal source foods in order to protect the planet from climate change. That there was not Uh, reflected by the FAO. The FAO said of all the measures to reduce the carbon footprint of our food, eating less. Animal source foods will not get us there. It will have the least of all impacts. The most impacts will be working with farmers to reduce emissions.
Track 1:So basically what I would argue that the US cattle industry has been trying to do on its own accord,
frank-m-m-mitloehner_2_12-18-2023_142851:accord,
Track 1:improving our efficiency of production, improving. Moving our reproductive efficiency and making the most of the resources that we do have
frank-m-m-mitloehner_2_12-18-2023_142851:we do have
Track 1:for decades.
frank-m-m-mitloehner_2_12-18-2023_142851:for
Track 1:Right.
frank-m-m-mitloehner_2_12-18-2023_142851:Yes, but the US beef and, dairy herd, uh, or dairy producers have have not just been trying, but they have done it
Track 1:Sure.
frank-m-m-mitloehner_2_12-18-2023_142851:the beef side, for example, um, the US has 6% of the global beef herd. But it produces 18%, one eight of the global beef. So this is exactly what we're discussing here, uh, which is you can do so much more with less by doing it. Right?
Track 1:And, and that's, I think what you have said in so many of the talks that I have heard you give and, and interviews that I've read. And that is we don't need to just sit here and defend what it is we're doing. We need to tell folks. What we have been doing and why. And once we tell that story quite often
frank-m-m-mitloehner_2_12-18-2023_142851:often
Track 1:that's almost enough for a lot of these conversations to turn from cows are the reason for climate change to. Maybe we can just incrementally get better through all of these different technologies and selection and management practices and things like that.
frank-m-m-mitloehner_2_12-18-2023_142851:that.
Track 1:So
frank-m-m-mitloehner_2_12-18-2023_142851:So
Track 1:tell me a little bit about your history. Um, you're the director of the Clear Center there at
frank-m-m-mitloehner_2_12-18-2023_142851:there at uc Davis.
Track 1:Tell us how that came to be and, and why, and what brought you to the point where you'd even be attending something like COP 28 in Dubai for the beef industry and dairy industry?
frank-m-m-mitloehner_2_12-18-2023_142851:Yeah, maybe just one going back.
Track 1:Sure.
frank-m-m-mitloehner_2_12-18-2023_142851:I am not a proponent of saying, uh oh, we are already so good. We don't have to do anything else.
Track 1:Right.
frank-m-m-mitloehner_2_12-18-2023_142851:Um, but I am a proponent of a continue to improve strategy
Track 1:Yep. I would agree.
frank-m-m-mitloehner_2_12-18-2023_142851:what our contributions are and making strides to reducing it further. Um, have always felt that way. Uh, I have Been here at uc Davis, uh, as a professor and air quality specialist for the last 21 years, and my entire career has been, dedicated to reduce the footprint, the envi environmental footprint of livestock, ways of. Practically reduce emissions, minimizing the environmental footprint. At first there was not really much interest, but today the world talks about it. all the anti livestock people, um, have identified. Uh, the environmental aspects as the achilles heel of and dairy and other livestock species. And so the research that I had been done, uh, I had been doing for a long time is now not a little niche, of interest, but it's now mainstream. And so obviously over the years I have formed very close relationships to the livestock sector. And what I mean by that is I have met and I've worked with if not thousands of farmers, mainly here in the United States, but also internationally. I've built trust. Uh, they know that when study something, when I publish something, when my center. Uh, studies and publishes something, then this is something they can hang their hat on and, uh, trust in. And as a result, our work gets implemented in the real world. And that to me very, very important. Namely not just to publish things in the peer-reviewed literature that's read by a couple dozen people, scientists, but for our work to make the real world. And make a difference in the real world. And that's exactly what's happening. Um, and that's why I founded the Clear Center because I wanted have an instrument that amplifies what I normally would be doing by myself. I have a core with um. Postdoctoral fellows and PhD Um, large research enterprise as one half of the clear center and the other half of the clear center, um, does work that traditionally is called extension. Um, it's pretty much. Communication with the agricultural sector, also with the public at large as well as with influencers. So we are reaching journalists, we are reaching policy makers, we are reaching farmers, we are reaching high school students, college students, and so forth. And we are doing it in a, in a, I think, very effective way. And by doing it, we have changed. the narrative around livestock and climate, livestock and the environment. have gotten it back to forefront of thinking in our farmers and we have, um, counteracted some of the rhetoric that's thrown against our farmers by, interested parties.
Track 1:Well, I would echo the, that you are doing exactly that, uh, because for so many years we as producers have.
frank-m-m-mitloehner_2_12-18-2023_142851:Have,
Track 1:I'd mentioned there a few minutes ago, kind of taken almost a defensive viewpoint and said, how dare someone ask why it is that we raise cows? How dare someone try to regulate particulate matter? Uh, we know there's going to be dust. We choke on it every day. How dare someone tell us how to do our business and that.
frank-m-m-mitloehner_2_12-18-2023_142851:And
Track 1:Doesn't work with the FAO, that doesn't work even anymore with
frank-m-m-mitloehner_2_12-18-2023_142851:with
Track 1:neighbors in Wichita, Kansas. Uh, much less those that,
frank-m-m-mitloehner_2_12-18-2023_142851:that,
Track 1:really want to take the industry down truly and are using those against us. So, so what you're doing there, I think is helping us
frank-m-m-mitloehner_2_12-18-2023_142851:helping us
Track 1:speak the vernacular and use the terminology and, and show what it is that,
frank-m-m-mitloehner_2_12-18-2023_142851:that,
Track 1:that, uh, we're trying to achieve and, and therefore hopefully are, and in incrementally getting better every day.
frank-m-m-mitloehner_2_12-18-2023_142851:day.
Track 1:So what got you into this business? You were raised in Germany, correct? Did your what? Post-graduate work or your, uh, graduate work at Texas Tech. Take us through how you got into this air quality space and then into things like the clear center.
frank-m-m-mitloehner_2_12-18-2023_142851:center. So I thought that I had no agricultural background. Neither my parents nor grandparents' generation were in agriculture, and so I thought I had no. Such background, but little did I know that, um, when, a few years ago, my oldest brother and I went on a ancestry search. We found out that seven, 800 years of our ancestors were in two areas. The one was m animal agriculture. They all had cattle. And the cattle were. Pushed up the mountains in the summer and down into the valley to live in the homes where the, where those people lived.
Track 1:Right.
frank-m-m-mitloehner_2_12-18-2023_142851:Um, and so that went on for at least seven, if not 800 years. And, uh, the other area they were involved in was, was forestry. And without knowing our history, oldest brother became a professor in forestry at a, at a German university. And I'm a professor in animal science, I guess it runs deep. Um. Yes, I did my, uh, masters in agricultural engineering at a university in Germany in Leipzig, and then I did my PhD at Texas Tech University in Lubbock, Texas. I, I went there because that's where the cattle are, that's where a lot of the, the cattle industry in the United States is located. Um, particularly the, the more intensive, uh, production. And then, um, after doing my PhD, I came to Davis, California in 2002, uh, to start my first ever, uh, real job. Not just little, you know, summer job, but first ever real job
Track 1:Right.
frank-m-m-mitloehner_2_12-18-2023_142851:I've never left since. so I was always interested in the interrelationship of livestock and its environment. I started out when I was a master's student in Germany, traveling the world of various countries and Looking at the effect of the environment on, on animals such as heat stress or cold stress or, um, husbandry issues or so. Um, and then later, uh, do my PhD and, and once I became a professor, I, I. expanded that into at the impact that livestock has on air quality, on climate and so forth. And then, became quickly a very hot topic and it still is, and we are one of the players in that field.
Track 1:Absolutely, and you're, you were per had perfect timing, I would say, and to have that passion and that interest.
frank-m-m-mitloehner_2_12-18-2023_142851:interest.
Track 1:You know, you mentioned the word husbandry there.
frank-m-m-mitloehner_2_12-18-2023_142851:there,
Track 1:And I've had this conversation, I, I, unlike yourself, I grew up on a ranch. I went into an animal science undergraduate, uh,
frank-m-m-mitloehner_2_12-18-2023_142851:uh,
Track 1:program at, at Kansas State University and, and graduated from there. Had a series of jobs within the beef industry and now I've moved back into beef production with my family where I grew up.
frank-m-m-mitloehner_2_12-18-2023_142851:grew up.
Track 1:I have an animal science and industry major, and I don't know the exact time when most of our land grant schools across America went from being animal husbandry schools to animal science and industry,
frank-m-m-mitloehner_2_12-18-2023_142851:industry.
Track 1:but it's probably somewhere in the seventies or eighties, I would guess. And in some respects, when we are talking to the consumer science and industry. Almost turns them away. And yet husbandry and doing exactly as you mentioned, studying these interrelationships between livestock and their environments. That's
frank-m-m-mitloehner_2_12-18-2023_142851:That's
Track 1:That's, that resonates with our
frank-m-m-mitloehner_2_12-18-2023_142851:our
Track 1:public. That's either. Making that beef purchase or deciding how they're going to vote on some kind of an issue that affects livestock and and livestock producers.
frank-m-m-mitloehner_2_12-18-2023_142851:producers.
Track 1:So I think some respects we need to get back to that.
frank-m-m-mitloehner_2_12-18-2023_142851:that.
Track 1:Not that we've actually changed anything, but at least the terminology of being husbands being stewards of these livestock, not just figuring out science and technology. It's probably that not that much different, but it sounds different to our
frank-m-m-mitloehner_2_12-18-2023_142851:our
Track 1:buying public.
frank-m-m-mitloehner_2_12-18-2023_142851:Yeah. You know, sometimes it's just nuance. But, um, you have heard within the agricultural sector that people push back when they hear the term sustainability,
Track 1:Mm-Hmm.
frank-m-m-mitloehner_2_12-18-2023_142851:they push back in the agricultural sector and they say, well, you know, not endorsing it. But what's interesting is to me, sustainability rests on five pillars. Environmental quality, animal welfare workers, food safety and financial viability. I repeat that. Environmental quality, animal welfare, uh, workers attracting and retaining a qualified workforce. Food safety and financial viability. So sustainability, uh, in my opinion, rests on these five pillars, but so does stewardship. If you think of stewardship, if you ask a thousand farmers. how, how many of you think that taking the best care of your land, of the water that runs through your land, uh, the air and the soil, taking the best care of the welfare of your animals, taking the best care of the product quality that you produce, taking the best care of the people who work with you and for you, and making sure they stay with you and taking the best care of your finances, who would think that these are not? important pillars of your, of your operation.
Track 1:Yeah.
frank-m-m-mitloehner_2_12-18-2023_142851:a thousand farmers. You would get five. They would say, no, no, we,
Track 1:Yeah.
frank-m-m-mitloehner_2_12-18-2023_142851:believe in that. they buy into stewardship. They don't buy into sustainability. But the thing is, in cities call it one thing. People in the countryside call it something else. If these people in cities buy your products, well then you better speak the language that they speak
Track 1:Right.
frank-m-m-mitloehner_2_12-18-2023_142851:they won't listen.
Track 1:Yeah, I, I've had that discussion and it's frustrating. I mean, as soon as what I call a red flag word, like sustainability or climate change comes up. Yeah. We're, we're gonna have a certain segment of our producers that absolutely say, I'm not even participating in this because I don't believe it's real.
frank-m-m-mitloehner_2_12-18-2023_142851:Yeah. You know, I
Track 1:oh, go ahead.
frank-m-m-mitloehner_2_12-18-2023_142851:I give about 150 talks a year, invited talks, and many of those people you are talking about sit in my audiences and I have yet to meet, I mean, there are a few, but I have yet to meet people who after hearing me out and hearing me out openly and, and really with, uh, without filters, uh, would come to me and say, you know, uh, I still think you're full of it. Um, they say, well, I didn't quite understand what it was about, Now that I do understand what it's about, it makes sense uh, and I'm behind you on that.
Track 1:yeah, I think that's where a lot of us get is some of the fringe actors in terms of.
frank-m-m-mitloehner_2_12-18-2023_142851:terms
Track 1:The climate change movement and, and activists and things that, like, so many things are taken too far have made it where politically or, whatever drives folks' core decisions have not allowed a lot of folks to, um, to
frank-m-m-mitloehner_2_12-18-2023_142851:to
Track 1:even accept much less embrace this whole movement. But let me ask you this, whether we believe that man has an effect on climate change or has not had an effect on climate change in 2023 going forth, does it matter what we believe in that regard? Or has that been dogma that is accepted enough globally that we have to say what it is that we're doing to. Manage and be husbands and stewards of our resources as best as we can and, and prove to people what our position is on,
frank-m-m-mitloehner_2_12-18-2023_142851:on,
Track 1:the beef industry.
frank-m-m-mitloehner_2_12-18-2023_142851:industry. So I meet many producers and I have to tell you, there are very, very few who tell me I don't, I don't see any changes out there. Okay. I think everything is the same way it was 30, 40 years ago.
Track 1:Yeah.
frank-m-m-mitloehner_2_12-18-2023_142851:I think everybody works in nature like farmers do. sees that things are changing, okay?
Track 1:Right.
frank-m-m-mitloehner_2_12-18-2023_142851:all kinds of extremes intensifying. Um, I have over the last 21 years that I've been here, seen five year droughts, five year droughts where our farmers were cut back to 5% of the normal water, water allocations. I've seen wildfires, unbelievable sized wildfires, uh, that take place in ways that are atypical. The fires are way hotter than they used to be. Uh, some of those fires occur the Sierra Nevada, where we have these mon, these huge trees, these sequoia trees that have a bark of, you know, 10 inches thick. These things burn down. All of a sudden they have never burned down. They are adapted to To existing in, in wildfire regions, but now they are burning down. I was just there in one of these incredible, uh, Sequoia groves and I saw quite a few of those big trees that have burned down. And it's, uh, heartbreaking to be honest with you. Um, most farmers I talk to say yes, I see things are changing, but, and I also think that, um, You know, human activity can have something to do with that, they say, I'm just not sure my cows do. And here's the thing. First of all, I do believe that human activity has an important impact on our climate. And the way that I think that impact occurs is that we take an enormous amount of carbon out of the ground where it was stored for a very long time as decaying and fossilized plant and animal material. there was in the grant for a very long time, and over the last 70 years, we took half of it out. With oil, coal, and gas. And we burned that stuff and now the carbon that was in the ground for so long is in our atmosphere. And every time solar beams hit those carbon molecules, they heat up. I can show that to anybody who is interested in it in my lab'cause I can simulate it. that, uh, increasing concentrations of carbon in the atmosphere will lead to increasing warming impacts humans do a lot of that. So the question is, how much of that do our do? How much of that comes from livestock? The answer to that is, um, livestock produces one main greenhouse gas, and that's methane. And while methane indeed is a powerful gas, about 30, close to 30 times more powerful per molecule carbon dioxide. While that's true, methane also has some very interesting um, nuances to it that people are normally not aware of. carbon dioxide and other greenhouse gases are only produced by certain sources, methane is naturally produced, let's say by cattle or rice petties or so, but after about one decade, it's being destroyed by a, by another molecule that's in the air called a radical. And so methane is not just produced. By sources, but they are also sinks for methane. And that means if we manage methane effectively by either holding it constant, constant, her sizes, for example, produce constant methane or better reducing it further, then we can either not have an impact on adding additional warming. or if we reduce methane, we can reduce warming. And that's where we are working very hard to help our farmers ways through breeding, through feeding, through reproduction, and other means reduce methane because that reduces warming and that makes farmers part of a climate solution, which they should be.
Track 1:So let's back up one step and talk about all of, just so our listeners get it,
frank-m-m-mitloehner_2_12-18-2023_142851:get
Track 1:greenhouse gases that can affect the, the climate. So we talked about methane, you mentioned carbon dioxide.
frank-m-m-mitloehner_2_12-18-2023_142851:Yeah.
Track 1:Tell us some of those inner reactions and, and differences and similarities there.
frank-m-m-mitloehner_2_12-18-2023_142851:so just limit ourselves to these two gases. Carbon dioxide and methane.
Track 1:Okay.
frank-m-m-mitloehner_2_12-18-2023_142851:dioxide is the number one greenhouse gas with respect to total. abundance, we call it. How much of that is in the atmosphere? It's produced every time we burn oil, coal, and gas. So every time we burn using our car, um, we put new and additional carbon into the atmosphere that wasn't there thousands of years ago. that CO2, once it's in the atmosphere and once it comes out of the exhaust pipe of our car, will stay there in the atmosphere for a thousand years. That's the lifetime of that gas. there are no real destroying that gas, but we are a net source of it we are adding additional carbon, uh, by burning fossil fuels every year. And the trend goes up, up, up, and up. CO2 carbon dioxide is called a stock gas because it accumulates. And what you burn today is in addition to what you burned last year and last decade, and all the stuff your parents and grandparents and so on burned and put into the atmosphere. So CO2 is a stock gas. It only accumulates and every time we burn fossil fuel, it leads to additional warming. Methane is not as dog gas is, has first of all, a short lifespan of about 10 to 12 years. It's produced by sources, it's also destroyed by sinks. And if you have a constant source of methane that's, say a constant cattle herd, then it's almost an equal amount of methane that's destroyed as what is produced. So you need a 0.3. Percent reduction of methane per year, 0.3% reduction of methane per year not add additional warming to our planet. If your reduction, your annual reduction is 1% or 2% of methane per year, then that means that you are taking out more methane than you replenish with your cattle, and that means. That if you reduce more than you produce, then you are net reducing this gas in the atmosphere, and that net reduces the warming, uh, of your herd on the planet. So, and that's really attractive because, uh, let's say the cattle industry, the, the dairy industry, for example, here in California is now more and more often. Covering the manure lagoons, trapping the gas mixture, the so-called biogas that normally would go into the air, trapping it under the tub, cleaning it up, making it into transportation fuels, and then those transportation fuels called renewable natural gas, going to heavy duty trucks and into buses diesel. As a result, our dairy industry has achieved one third of its methane. Reduction goal within the last five years, and the state is watching that and scratching head and saying, whoa, we've been doing here, which is using a voluntary incentive-based approach, meaning incentivizing reductions of methane financially works using the carrot approach of incentivizing reductions rather than the cane approach using rules, regulations, fines, or taxes. Works. And so I'm really happy to report that California for one Got it. Right. And I hope that there are, um, other areas where they will follow suit and that there are other places in the world that will follow the California example
Track 1:Because other places in the world have taken that cane or that stick approach, have they not?
frank-m-m-mitloehner_2_12-18-2023_142851:Yes. Yes, in New Zealand they are, um, very likely to go the tax route. So if you have rum, uh, ruminant livestock, then they will, impose a tax to those farmers. Uh, the Irish are thinking about getting rid of 200,000 cattle to reduce their carbon footprint. The Dutch recently a government, thank God that government just lost Um, and will be replaced. But, uh, the plan on the table was to put out 25 billion 25 billion euros and buy out 3000 farms. Some of the most productive farmers in the world I might add
Track 1:Wow.
frank-m-m-mitloehner_2_12-18-2023_142851:farming. they wanna get rid of a third of their farmers. Who produce, uh, carbon and nitrogen emissions. uh, if a farmer says, okay, I sell my farm to you, the government, then they have to sign the dotted line, which says, if you sell us your farm, then you sign that you will never be a farmer again, and neither will your kids.
Track 1:Wow.
frank-m-m-mitloehner_2_12-18-2023_142851:And if you wanna see upset farmers, on the TV and watch what's happening in the Netherlands, or watch now what's happening in Germany. You'll see tens of thousands of tractors on the streets of these countries in the months to come because policies are not working, alongside with farmers, but against them.
Track 1:So you've talked a lot and, and we hear the numbers of ruminants across the world and where those ruminants are.
frank-m-m-mitloehner_2_12-18-2023_142851:are
Track 1:In developing compared to developed countries,
frank-m-m-mitloehner_2_12-18-2023_142851:countries,
Track 1:let's say through the
frank-m-m-mitloehner_2_12-18-2023_142851:the
Track 1:stick or the cane approach in Europe or New Zealand, or through the carrot approach that California has begun and maybe the rest of
frank-m-m-mitloehner_2_12-18-2023_142851:of
Track 1:the United States adopts. Let's say we move the needle
frank-m-m-mitloehner_2_12-18-2023_142851:needle.
Track 1:a percent or 2%, or whatever the case may be in terms of methane emissions from our livestock, beef, and dairy.
frank-m-m-mitloehner_2_12-18-2023_142851:dairy.
Track 1:What about India
frank-m-m-mitloehner_2_12-18-2023_142851:India
Track 1:and China and all of these places? Because it doesn't matter if we're less than a third of the total population of, of cattle, if we do the right things from a global perspective, we're still gonna have the same amount of carbon in the atmosphere, right?
frank-m-m-mitloehner_2_12-18-2023_142851:Yeah.
Track 1:I mean, relatively speaking.
frank-m-m-mitloehner_2_12-18-2023_142851:So challenge is always this, if a relatively smaller emitter says, look, we are so small, we don't really matter. And if then thousands of smaller emitters say, look, we are small, we don't matter,
Track 1:Right.
frank-m-m-mitloehner_2_12-18-2023_142851:it makes, um, a large percentage. So even though you might be a relatively small emitter. Uh, you still have to do your share. Okay. That's, uh, that's just a little prelude here. Um, the intergovernmental panel for Climate Change, the world leading body on climate, uh, looked at Livestock's impact globally, and they said that 80%, 80 zero, 80% of the impact livestock has on climate 80% of that impact arises from developing countries. and 20% from developed countries such as European countries, American, uh, you know, like Canada, us, and, um, so 80% from developing countries. Um, this is not a deflection of our emissions or, uh, finger pointing elsewhere, but this is just a simple. A matter of fact that the majority of livestock emissions globally come from developing countries.
Track 1:All right.
frank-m-m-mitloehner_2_12-18-2023_142851:So while we here in the US and other developed countries can feed, feed additives, or we can use better breeding, or we can use technologies like anaerobic digesters or, so, the same is not, uh, the case for many developing countries. There they have lower hanging fruit. The number one is they have to become more efficient. That's the number one. Why? Because They can make advances like we have done here. For example, in the US we used to have 25 million dairy cows. we no longer have 25. We now have 9 million dairy cows. But with this much smaller herd, we are now producing 60% more milk than with a much larger herd before we have shrunk our carbon footprint by two thirds. with a much smaller herd, and that has a profound impact.
Track 1:Sure.
frank-m-m-mitloehner_2_12-18-2023_142851:the same is true for picks, and the same is true for beef, and the same is true for poultry. We have seen incredible advances in production that have had a incredible impact on environmental footprint in developing countries. We have big issue. I just told you, we have 9 million dairy cows in the United States. In India. They have 300 million.
Track 1:Hmm.
frank-m-m-mitloehner_2_12-18-2023_142851:And a very large chunk of these 300 million they have in India are what I call idle animals. Idle means these animals don't really produce milk anymore as soon as they fall out of production. the gates of the dairy will open and these cows will be turned out, and then they roam around freely in town because nobody will ever eat them for religious reasons.
Track 1:Right.
frank-m-m-mitloehner_2_12-18-2023_142851:idle animals. So if you take two countries, let's say India and Brazil, these two countries together more cattle than the rest of the world combined.
Track 1:Hmm.
frank-m-m-mitloehner_2_12-18-2023_142851:imagine what would happen if these two countries alone were to reduce 30, 40% emissions. That would've a profound impact, a profound impact. Um, if we reduce, let's say 10, 20, 30% emissions here with our relatively small herds, then we will not really move the needle in any major way, but we would still do our share.
Track 1:And we've always been leaders. Globally, and this is probably an opportunity for us to do the same
frank-m-m-mitloehner_2_12-18-2023_142851:same
Track 1:in terms of providing that leadership. So let's turn the page just a little bit and look a little more introspectively within the beef industry. And this is gonna be a little harder on me and my cow calf, grass farmer types of producers. Everybody that I talk to in terms, I shouldn't say everyone, but most of the non-Ag folks that we communicate with about how we manage beef cattle, they love the idea of these sprawling ranches with cows out on a thousand hills and green grass and grandma and. Sun and grandson standing there with three generations of cattle ranchers and they detest the thought of a barren, dusty feed yard with a hundred or 200 steers in a pen,
frank-m-m-mitloehner_2_12-18-2023_142851:pan
Track 1:having everything they eat come from corn and corn based diets. But which of those two from a methane standpoint is emitting the most methane?
frank-m-m-mitloehner_2_12-18-2023_142851:Uh, I hate to break it to you, but, um, the grazing animal emits more, not less. And here's the reason. What drives methane production the amount of roughage in the diet. The more roughage, the more methane, because the methane forming microbes in the rumen of these animals do not, they're not capable of breaking down concentrates. And in the feedlot you feed 80, 90% concentrates and 10 or 20% roughage. That's why feedlot cattle produce very little methane and the manure is in feedlots. out and then compost it. That means somebody turns that stuff. It's not under anaerobic, meaning oxygen deprived conditions. And that means, um, their manure does not produce a lot of methane either in the beef supply chain, if you look at everything from cow calf over stocker to feed lots, then the total footprint, feedlots make up 10%. stalkers make up another 10% and the cow calf makes up 80%, eight zero. And um, and that is counterintuitive because people see these picturesque images of animals on pasture, and I love it as much as everybody else does.
Track 1:Sure.
frank-m-m-mitloehner_2_12-18-2023_142851:from an accounting perspective, just from a perspective alone, um, the notion that, grass fed animals are better for the environment or better for climate or so. That does not hold true. So we have to be careful picture we draw and much of, uh, of that narrative is really supported with data.
Track 1:And so how in a conversation, whether we're using pictures or stories or whatever the case may be, I. When, when I see data about the consuming public and their view of animal agriculture and, and what sustainability means to them,
frank-m-m-mitloehner_2_12-18-2023_142851:them,
Track 1:there's usually going to be an environmental component, but quite often at the top of the list is animal welfare,
frank-m-m-mitloehner_2_12-18-2023_142851:Mm-Hmm.
Track 1:and in their mind, animal welfare is not just. Being kind and doing the right things to animals, but seeing those out on grass.
frank-m-m-mitloehner_2_12-18-2023_142851:Mm-Hmm.
Track 1:So this whole sustainability discussion gets really, really muddy as we talk to consumers, especially given the fact that one of, in my opinion,
frank-m-m-mitloehner_2_12-18-2023_142851:And
Track 1:I. One of our competitive advantages within the beef industry is the fact that we can take that low quality forage, that roughage, that
frank-m-m-mitloehner_2_12-18-2023_142851:that
Track 1:the microbes then have to digest or help digest in the, in the rumen
frank-m-m-mitloehner_2_12-18-2023_142851:room and
Track 1:and release all this methane in the process. But we can use a ruminant, a cow, a goat to sheep, whatever the case may be.
frank-m-m-mitloehner_2_12-18-2023_142851:be
Track 1:Out on land and acres that can't be farmed. And so there is a certain amount of advantage to using that low qual or using that cow to turn low quality. Low quality forage. Yeah. So how do you do that?
frank-m-m-mitloehner_2_12-18-2023_142851:do you do that? Well, I'm a great fan of grazing. Okay. And I'm a huge fan of ruminants, so I wanna be very clear. I don't want anybody to think, well, Midler doesn't like, um, cow calf operations or, so I, I just, uh, address the, the notion that I hear, uh, myself too. know, all we need to do is turn animals onto, onto pasture, and then
Track 1:Right.
frank-m-m-mitloehner_2_12-18-2023_142851:Made a huge difference on our carbon footprint. That is not true. So to me, it's a beautiful thing. You have marginal land, meaning la land that is not suitable grow crops. You have marginal land, and that's two thirds of all agricultural land in the United States. Um. and all that grows there is cellulose, and cellulose is the world's most abundant biomass. It grows on these marginal lands, and cellulose is contained in grasses and other forages that our animals consume. The only ones that can consume that cellulose rich material and make human edible food from it, which is also very yummy by the way, are ruminant animals.
Track 1:Right.
frank-m-m-mitloehner_2_12-18-2023_142851:the ones without cattle, sheep. To some extent, goats maybe could not make use of two thirds of all agricultural land and the biomass contain there on, and therefore, to me it, it is a no-brainer that we use that land for that purpose. powered by the sun. The process is photosynthesis. We are sequestering carbon. Yes, we, we might argue over how much carbon we sequester, but we sequester some carbon for sure. Um, we keep it open land and free of residential encroachment, hopefully. so all of these. All of these are really important, uh, services. talked to somebody else today who talked to me about the use of livestock, to prevent wildfires.
Track 1:All right.
frank-m-m-mitloehner_2_12-18-2023_142851:not forget that there's a huge function that our ruminants have in in keeping, fuel loads down therefore reducing, wildfire damages. Think about this in Canada in one year. these wildfires that we just witnessed so much carbon
Track 1:Yeah.
frank-m-m-mitloehner_2_12-18-2023_142851:into the atmosphere that it offset the carbon savings from all mitigation in Canada over the last decade.
Track 1:Wow.
frank-m-m-mitloehner_2_12-18-2023_142851:think about what that means.
Track 1:Mm.
frank-m-m-mitloehner_2_12-18-2023_142851:So preventing wildfires is not just a minor little thing. It is big. It is very important, not just for the obvious of, uh, you know, uh, protecting human life and animal life and structures, but also protecting our climate.
Track 1:So you'd mentioned things like capturing methane off lagoons and, and dairies, or even feeding
frank-m-m-mitloehner_2_12-18-2023_142851:or
Track 1:operations. Are there ways, or what ways are there and what ways can we look forward to where ruminants that are out on vast expanses of this native range or any kind of of pasture type setting?
frank-m-m-mitloehner_2_12-18-2023_142851:of setting.
Track 1:How can we.
frank-m-m-mitloehner_2_12-18-2023_142851:can we
Track 1:Do that because obviously we're not going to be catching the methane, at least I don't think, on a cow per a hundred acres in A BLM allotment or something. What's on the horizon where we can actually make a difference with these grass forage based cow calf
frank-m-m-mitloehner_2_12-18-2023_142851:cattle. So it is actually the most tricky of all mitigation
Track 1:Sure.
frank-m-m-mitloehner_2_12-18-2023_142851:Okay. And the animals on pasture that we don't have access to.'cause we see them once in a while, maybe twice a year when we process them for various reasons. But other than that, they do their thing out there. how do you reduce their emissions? There are a few, uh, interesting developments. One of them is that on the dairy side, have seen that enteric methane, which is the methane that animals spells out this enteric methane is heritable. So one generation passes it onto the next, and the dairy side, have developed a test that can tell you whether a cow is a high or low methane producing cow, then you can test your herd and then only use the low methane producing animals, uh, full breeding. And by doing so, you have a mo, a permanent reduction of methane from the entire herd. That I think is a very important. Development. Uh, again, it's available on the dairy side, already the beef side, not so we need an EPD and exp expect expected progeny difference test for methane. It needs to be developed. We need to have that tool at our disposal and I'm really asking scientists in this field, uh, please work on that. It is extremely important because regardless of where we house cattle, whether we house them the cow calf. Or in the stock or in the feedlot or wherever we, we house those animals. And of course, in most cases we use all of those different production types for each animal that goes to the market. But, um, regardless of how we raise animals, it would make an. A huge significant impact for the entire supply chain. So breeding is one. The second one is an approach, uh, where people put a bolus, which is a capsule into the rum of those cows, and it slowly releases a anti-methane agent reduces the methane that's peled out by cattle up to half a year. And then it dissolves in the rumen and you have to replace it with a new bolus. So that's another, um, technology that might work under grazing conditions. We have to test it and we are about to, um, a third one tested by the New Zealanders as we speak is a vaccine for methane. Don't ask me how that works, but they're working on this quite fever virtually. So, that, of course, you can imagine, you give an animal a shot like you would for Uh, foothill abortion or something else. um, the animal would produce much less, or if any, uh, methane in the future. So that would be, we are, we need technologies that. you can apply once and then forget about it or maybe once a year and forget about it. feed additives of different kinds will be and have been developed for intensively kept animals in feed dots or on commercial dairy or so, but they're not so much of a real thing for. Animals under your conditions. Last, not least. there are some trials going on right now where people take the active ingredients that are normally only applied via feed additives and they put them into salt licks or they put them into drinking water for cattle to find out whether or not that could be a viable application route. But how far that technology is, I don't know.
Track 1:So I, I should know the answer to this, or I should remember from my remnant nutrition classes, but will Menin
frank-m-m-mitloehner_2_12-18-2023_142851:Menin
Track 1:have an effect on methane production, on a high forage type of diet
frank-m-m-mitloehner_2_12-18-2023_142851:The jury is out on this. Uh, I've done a research trial, maybe 15 years ago, um, using various levels of, of rumson, uh, on dairy emissions, and I did not see a difference.
Track 1:Okay.
frank-m-m-mitloehner_2_12-18-2023_142851:the company Elanco that sells them, say there is a difference. Um, not seen it. Some people say there might be a minor one. Some people say there might be a minor one and it goes away after a while because
Track 1:Hmm.
frank-m-m-mitloehner_2_12-18-2023_142851:not forget
Track 1:All right.
frank-m-m-mitloehner_2_12-18-2023_142851:in the room and are adaptable,
Track 1:Yep. Yep.
frank-m-m-mitloehner_2_12-18-2023_142851:If there's one thing they're really good at. It's adapting to all kinds of conditions and the only additive feed additive class that I've seen so far that really has a permanent impact are not so much the room modifiers. Um, that change the microbial composition in the rumen, more so the methane inhibitors, which disrupt the enzymatic production of methane in the rumen.
Track 1:Hmm. rest assured that on the genetics side of things, in the beef cow calf world, there is work being done. And um,
frank-m-m-mitloehner_2_12-18-2023_142851:uh,
Track 1:we've gotten the opportunity personally to, to work with two different groups who are doing some of that. Dr. Dave Lawman down at Oklahoma State on a feed efficiency trial that he is working into. Methane emissions and things like that. Uh, provide some genetics down to them at OSU. And then we actually have a, what we call a green feed machine that is out in one of our pastures, um, that is measuring exactly that methane emissions. As
frank-m-m-mitloehner_2_12-18-2023_142851:As
Track 1:our cows walk in there, you know how the
frank-m-m-mitloehner_2_12-18-2023_142851:know
Track 1:machine works, but for those that are listening,
frank-m-m-mitloehner_2_12-18-2023_142851:are listening,
Track 1:there's alfalfa pellets in an automatic, um, feeder, and they walk in and bite.
frank-m-m-mitloehner_2_12-18-2023_142851:and bite
Track 1:A few of those for a matter of six or eight or 10 minutes. And meanwhile, it measures how much
frank-m-m-mitloehner_2_12-18-2023_142851:much
Track 1:a methane that they're emitting and and then
frank-m-m-mitloehner_2_12-18-2023_142851:then
Track 1:it.
frank-m-m-mitloehner_2_12-18-2023_142851:it
Track 1:that with an RFID that's in their ear. And so here we have this long list of a hundred cows that are in there and how much each of them are, are emitting as they, as they respire.
frank-m-m-mitloehner_2_12-18-2023_142851:they
Track 1:So it is exciting stuff and, and some that I think we're gonna wanna stay tuned for because it, it.
frank-m-m-mitloehner_2_12-18-2023_142851:it,
Track 1:is, as you know, it's a,
frank-m-m-mitloehner_2_12-18-2023_142851:a,
Track 1:it's a big deal, um, from greenhouse gas standpoint, and I think, I hope that not only in the future can we have some, Opportunities to turn methane from a liability into an asset, but
frank-m-m-mitloehner_2_12-18-2023_142851:But
Track 1:It's my hope and that's why we're doing this work with KSU and Dr. Megan Rolfe with the Green Feed machines. I hope that we can actually find more feed efficient cows because not only are they not releasing methane, but they're using that energy to make meat and milk.
frank-m-m-mitloehner_2_12-18-2023_142851:milk.
Track 1:And, um, so I hope there's benefits. Two ways on that.
frank-m-m-mitloehner_2_12-18-2023_142851:that.
Track 1:So wrap us up just a little bit here before we go. What's, what are the opportunities that we have to move the needle on greenhouse gases and especially methane going forth?
frank-m-m-mitloehner_2_12-18-2023_142851:forth? So the first and most important thing is that people can believe people like my myself in, um, in so far that climate change is happening. Livestock do have a contribution to it, in the form of methane. methane can be a problem, and it is if we ignore it. Why? Because methane is nothing other than energy. Think of the heat that you use at home to heat your home, or cook your meals. That's methane gas. Okay? So methane is a form of energy. About 10% of the energy that we feed to our cattle gets lost as enteric methane. It's gone. Who in their right mind wants to lose 10% of the energy that we feed to them? The majority of the methane produced by manure. Just goes into the atmosphere. Now, I know that doesn't apply to ranchers as much, but it does apply to those who have more concentrated, uh, facilities. Don't just allow that gas to escape. If you can capture it and convert it into a utility, why wouldn't you? You have an additional income stream and you can make a sizable, uh, reduction off this gas. So I have said this many times, methane be a liability. That you can turn into an asset if you learn how to manage it. And that's what I'm encouraging people to do. This is not some form of greenwashing, but this is real. And it can move us, um, from being in one corner to the stage of those parts of society that actually have something to contribute in reducing our impact on climate.
Track 1:Well, I appreciate those comments and as you talk about
frank-m-m-mitloehner_2_12-18-2023_142851:about
Track 1:turning things into an asset, I think you have proven to me that,
frank-m-m-mitloehner_2_12-18-2023_142851:me
Track 1:um.
frank-m-m-mitloehner_2_12-18-2023_142851:um,
Track 1:Y you've done exactly that with the work that you have done there at, at the Clear Center in uc, Davis. I mean, uh, there's plenty of times over the last 20 years that you have been able to shine some light and, and we didn't get a
frank-m-m-mitloehner_2_12-18-2023_142851:didn't get a
Track 1:to talk about what you've done with GWP 100 as opposed to GWP Star and some of these ways that you have
frank-m-m-mitloehner_2_12-18-2023_142851:have
Track 1:spoken those folks language and proven to them that.
frank-m-m-mitloehner_2_12-18-2023_142851:that
Track 1:Your data is not right and the beef industry, the dairy industry, the livestock industry
frank-m-m-mitloehner_2_12-18-2023_142851:industry
Track 1:is not actually contributing the level of greenhouse gases that, uh, that. That you say they are,
frank-m-m-mitloehner_2_12-18-2023_142851:are.
Track 1:uh, same way it sounds like a week or two ago with the FAO and those reports, um, echoing what it is that you talked about.
frank-m-m-mitloehner_2_12-18-2023_142851:about.
Track 1:But we as livestock producers also need to recognize that while you're out there,
frank-m-m-mitloehner_2_12-18-2023_142851:there,
Track 1:and I hate to use the word defending us, but while you're out there helping shed light on the good things we need to be working toward giving you plenty of more fodder to show that. We are making incremental improvements and we are doing a better job, and we are capturing that energy and turning it into good protein, not just emitting it into the, uh, to the atmosphere to contribute to those greenhouse gases. So,
frank-m-m-mitloehner_2_12-18-2023_142851:So,
Track 1:um, just can't thank you enough for the work that you've done there and you continue to do and, and for joining us here today. It's, uh, it's an honor to get to visit with you and keep up the great work.
frank-m-m-mitloehner_2_12-18-2023_142851:The Oh no is mine. Thank you so much for having me. Appreciate it.
Track 1:You bet. Thank you.