Practically Ranching

#15 - Gordon Hibbard - Comfort and Growth Can't Coexist

August 31, 2022 Matt Perrier Season 1 Episode 15
Practically Ranching
#15 - Gordon Hibbard - Comfort and Growth Can't Coexist
Show Notes Transcript

Gordon Hibbard owns the Kansas Heartland franchise of the Dale Carnegie Training Course. He formerly led both the Kansas 4H Foundation and the Kansas Farm Bureau, plus has held countless volunteer leadership positions throughout his life.
 
Gordon grew up in my home county, serving as an FFA District officer for SE Kansas in 1971, just 51 years prior to our son Lyle serving in this same capacity. He's always had a knack for communication, interpersonal communication and finding the best in people.
What's more, his lovely wife, Karen also leads the Manhattan (KS) Convention & Visitor's bureau as their longtime Director.

In the podcast, your host incorrectly associated Dale Carnegie with the Carnegie Library system. In fact, Andrew Carnegie, the  19th century steel mogul and philanthropist, was the man who funded thousands of libraries built across the U.S. (and countless other philanthropic endeavors). The two men are not related.
My apologies for the incorrect association.

www.dalecarnegie.com
Book: How to Win Friends and Influence People, by Dale Carnegie

Matt:

Well, thank you once again for joining us for episode 15 of practically ranching. This week we get to visit with my friend Gordon Hibbard from Manhattan, Kansas. Gordon and his wife, Karen, have been family, friends of ours for decades. Uh, I knew them both as I was growing up. They were both mentors to me while I was attending school at Kansas state university. And I've always respected both of their natural leadership ability their calming, demeanor, and just positive attitudes that they both have about life. They're both wonderful Christians and, and they have helped so many people grow in their faith and in their leadership. So it's ironic once again. As you will hear partway through this week's podcast, that of all the guests on practically ranching to come close to tarnishing our clean rating thus far in podcast Landia. Gordon Hibbard is the one that I think almost gets us in trouble with one of his quotes that um, is very, very innocuous in nature. But nevertheless had to chuckle about that. We talk communication. We talk interpersonal relationship skills. We talk about the death of loyalty. We talked, Dale Carnegie and the impact that this early instigator of the, of the self-improvement movement continues to have on Gordon and so many others. But most of all, as the title suggests, we talk about growth. And the fact that it rarely occurs while we're comfortable. Uh, Gordon attributes, this quote that we used as the title to Simon Sinek, my fact checkers. Okay, Google. Credit. Former IBM CEO Ginni Rometty for its origin... regardless. All of us eventually have to admit that it's true. Growth, whether it's physical or spiritual or in a business,,, it's usually really uncomfortable. So I hope you, like, I can find some parallels to some topics that Gordon brings up. More importantly, find ways that, that we can grow when there are opportunities and still take comfort in some of those other times. So, as always, thanks for joining us yet again for practically ranching. alrighty. Well, thank you Gordon, for being with us today. Maybe sounds like you're getting ready for a big weekend. So maybe you needed a break anyway.

Gordon:

Yeah, well, we live about seven miles outside of Manhattan. We have a small acreage here. And so whenever you go to town, you have to make every trip counts. So

Matt:

understand. Completely.

Gordon:

always have to worry about that.

Matt:

Well, you're a lot closer than you were as a kid growing up. And it's probably an easier trip than it was to the, the big, big town of Toronto or even Eureka back then... tell us a little bit about uh, days.

Gordon:

So, yeah, we were 21 miles from Eureka, and and we were about, I guess before the lake went in, we were only like five miles from Toronto. And then the lake went in, we were eight miles out. And then when the bridge is flooded out and then we're like 12 miles from Toronto. So yeah, I going to town is a big deal. Whenever you, whenever you go, you gotta make sure it's worth.

Matt:

For sure. Well, let's see, give us a little history post leaving Eureka high school and from then up until now, if you would.

Gordon:

so I, I did graduate from Eureka. I went nine years to Toronto to the grade school. And then the I was there my freshman year at Toronto before

Matt:

going to say you went nine years to Eureka high and I was going to commend you for Had to be a

Gordon:

Well, I probably could have learned more than I stayed there nine years. I think they would've been tired of me for sure. Yeah, there were 14 in my class at Toronto. I think this is kind of cool because when, when consolidation was going on, they split us up like a Covey quail. Some of us went to Yates center, some of us went to Fredonia, we had one guy that went to Hamilton and then the rest of us went to Eureka in and out of a class of 14 that doesn't leave very many in any, of classes. So I went from a class to 14 to Eureka at that time. It was on the tail end of the baby. Boom. I think I like to say that was on the tail end of the baby, but then I think there's still more baby boom behind me, but door a hundred. I think there were about a hundred in our high school class at Eureka. that's quite quite an adjustment, but the, the good news, I mean, anytime a community loses their high school or grade school, either one, you know, it's just kind of a death of the community. And, and it certainly had that effect on Toronto, not the Toronto was dead, but I mean, it just has such a devastating effect on it. So going to Eureka. Was not our first choice, but the good thing for me when I went to Eureka was there were just so many more opportunities to get involved with some, with some of the extracurricular activities. But especially that was where I got involved with vocational agriculture. And I got involved with FFA and of course I'm just there for three years, but I feel like that was really a game changer for me in terms of the leadership and opportunities. And I was involved with four H as well, but FFA really, it was beneficial in that regard. So I left a Eureka and then went to K state and I majored in animal science my freshman year. And I took I, I took all my classes in Aggie Ville. After my, my freshman year to at K state, president McCain and I agreed. I need to go someplace else my next year. I literally, I, I just did not cut it. So I went back home and I went one year to the Neosho county community college. And I, you know, things kinda pulled together because when I left K state, I was bankrupt in every way, financially, academically, spiritually. I mean, there's just so many things. And so that one year at the community college really was beneficial. Then I went back to K state, actually changed my major from animal science to a secondary ed and also with journalism. And so then after getting out of k-State, I had to dual major there, but after getting that case, Jay went back to my hometown of Eureka to be a part of an upstart newspaper that some of your fellow Angus breeders will recognize bill Corbin. He was one of the partners as well as Glen Wilson. And that was that was quite a ride because I was there eight months. I learned more in eight months than I did in my five years in college. Just in terms of people. How you treat people, things you don't do, things you do do. And just the whole thing about how you get along as a community. So that was a, that was a real learning experience. The paper didn't make it for various reasons. And I don't think that was the whole entire reason to pay for 10 drinks I probably was a contributing factor. I was doing, I was doing ag stories and I was covering the county commission and then the school board and all the things that you do in a small community paper. But, you know, we were going up head to head against Richard Classen and the Eureka Herald. And that was just such a big mountain because Classen had had All sorts of experiencing community journalism. And he grew up in community journalism, he had been in Yates center before Eureka. So it was a tough, it was a tough mountain to climb, but had the opportunity then to join the Kansas farm bureau and was, was with Kansas farm bureau for 21 years. Most of that time was communications director. I became the executive vice-president for the farm organization. And you know, some of my favorite work was done there just from use value appraisal being able to get the beef checkoff past, I mean, that was a, that was a pretty big mountain to get that passed as a, you would have the mandatory checkoff and a use value. Appraisal was a big fight. First of all, we to get, we had to get the classification amendment passed. So we could then go ahead and enact the legislation. So there were some really great times there and felt like we really contributed a lot. like a lot of like a lot of things you know I I've realized that there were probably other, other things I needed to do. I have sometimes told people that I had an agricultural accident... I got caught in the farm bureau, political machinery,,,, but you know, looking back, I just, and especially now that I'm involved with Dale Carnegie looking back, I'm going, there's so many things I screwed up on in terms of how I handle people. There's just a lot of things. I, I didn't know at the time I was the youngest executive director for any state farm bureau and my goal was to become the executive director for the American farm bureau. And things shifted, things happened. And so I didn't get fired. I, I jumped off the ship and swam to shore before they crashed, but before they dumped me out, but it was yeah, it was a kind of a humbling time for me. And uh, I actually took a job with the Kansas 4H foundation, managed rock Springs for about six years. And then I took bill Riley's place as the president and CEO. And it, it, it ended up being a situation looking back now, I just, I just see, and I've heard your guests, Matt, and I really appreciate the dimension that you and many of your guests bring in terms of your faith. Looking back now, I just kind of see the hand God working through that. Not that I was obedient to him during all those years, but just just seeing that there are, there are situations that you grow from. There are situations that aren't about you. It's about something else that's going on. You know, so getting involved in with the session on a statewide level, and of course having grown up in four H seeing the benefit, not only with the kids that I grew up with, but also my own children and the benefit they got from four H it was a real fun time for us to Uh, do a lot of good things for four H. My highlight, there was the capital campaign. We raised $13 million. About half of that went into rock Springs to do some really necessary renovations. And then we also had quite a bit of money that was able to benefit through the endowments for the four H foundation. So I left the forage foundation in, in 2015. And that's when I jumped into Dale Carnegie.

Matt:

I'd say, even though you had a few. Maybe a missteps or hiccups along the way, I still will maintain that. It's not too shabby for a kid from Southeast Greenwood county. And, and every time you did Nick knocked down, you were able to get right back up and dust yourself off. And I think that's one thing is. In leadership uh, within really the United States when we see these, these rural youth and maybe not so youthful folks, they're accustomed to some adversity and they know how to rely on their faith and rely on those closest to them, to pick themselves up and dust themselves off and get after it again. Let's talk a little. So you never, did you ever have a major in communication or was it just secondary yet?

Gordon:

I had It was actually radio television, and so.

Matt:

That was your secondary

Gordon:

With journalism worked out pretty well because there are a lot of electives in journalism. So I already had quite a few leftover wasted from my freshman year, but also, you know, you can apply that. So, yeah, it was it was really a fun time. I got to know a lot of people had a lot of experiences and then with. And then with the work I did with the Kansas farm bureau, we did radio programs. We initiated the television broadcast. We were actually up, up linking some programs for our members. When I was, when I was there, of course, that's all. So it's that whole So. Different. When you talk to people, they look at you and go, you're doing what you know. So it's a, yeah, that's a changing industry. Just seems like if anything works, it's obsolete. And so you just you just have to catch up with all the technology. Just what you're doing here is amazing to me. I love, I to podcasts. And when I found out you were doing this on, wow, I didn't know that you're doing that and we've really enjoyed it. So

Matt:

Well, good, good. Yeah, it is it is pretty ironic that I have basically no um, teaching in communication and I can do what you were doing with a whole team with nothing, but a a hundred dollar microphone and, and uh, the already owned. So uh, yeah, today --is technology-, is so much simpler, and yet, feel like we, as humanity are so much poorer at it, one-on-one. And as I about a civil discourse, I mean, it's just, we'd rather, we'd rather type and be, you know, hateful keyboard warriors, than sit down and talk through these issues. And so I think, you know, regardless whether we're talking about um, agriculture, whatever the case may be, I mean, the. Pioneer post, is that what paper was called? I was trying

Gordon:

I got,

Matt:

back into my files.

Gordon:

to tell you about the pioneer post because this. So I, we had a county fair edition. The county fair was coming up. And so I did this story for this, this family down in Severy, Kansas. And they uh, the mom and dad were community leaders. The daughter was a member of the county council and the son was the president for each club. He has just one of those All-American family stories, you know? And so I did the story and that story won first place in the, in the Kansas press associations, bloopers, breakfast that. Because our editor God bless him. Our editor took that story and wrote a headline. Now, if you're not from Greenwood county, you may not appreciate this, but there's a town called Climax. Their 4H club was called the Climax Swingers.

Matt:

were, and they are no longer for

Gordon:

the headline, the headline that our editor wrote was climax, swingers have family affair. I still have a copy of that. And I kept that. So that's just kind of a little reminder.

Matt:

Gordon, I, still up to now have a clean rating for this podcast on apple podcasts. And I take great pride in that. And you of all my guests with the last one that I thought that would get me in trouble by using the, the climax swingers in his uh, in his response

Gordon:

recording the truth or just stuff

Matt:

That's good stuff. that's uh,

Gordon:

But you're right. You're right. Communications tough today. And, and partly because we just do not look people in the eye. We did a workshop yesterday for a group and you know, this sounds really basic, right? But we taught them how to shake hands

Matt:

how old were these people

Gordon:

you know, some of them were actually close to my younger and it wasn't that they didn't know how to shake hands. Don't get me wrong. It was. You know, in this day and age, you know, it's just hard to know how to communicate, how to shake hands, how to look people in the eye and then being able to carry on the conversation. And because if you go to a room, if you know people on one side of the room, you don't know people on the other side of the room, we tend to go to the, to the side of the room where we know people, right. And you at the same time, all our opportunities are on the other side of the room. And so we have this conversation link that we teach in our classes and our workshops. It's one of the things that we do but just to have the opportunity to practice asking questions and then listening not to respond, but to understand. And I think that that is just such a marvelous tool to have for anybody to use, honestly the. But the, the challenge, I think right now is that so many times, even if we blame an awful lot of this technology, well, the young people, all they do, all they want to do is just sit on their phones, you know? And I was down, my wife was from you know? And so I get up early in the morning, I go to the coffee shop while everybody else is getting around. And I was just a couple of years ago, I noticed there was a group of guys that were older than me. They'd probably be in their seventies and eighties. And sat down and what are they do? They pull their phone out and they're looking at, and they're looking at And so it's not, it's not generational thing. It's a, it's a cultural thing that's taken, taken over. And it's it's, it's a concern that I have because unfortunately you're right. You know, we tend to text message rather than just picking up if a person's going to text me more than three or four times in a row, I'm going to call them because I just can't, my fingers can't work that fast. But it is important. And being able to have those face to face eyeball to eyeball conversations, whether it's on a zoom link like this, or whether. Something else. Those are important conversations to have and being able to ask questions and listen is so critical and we just don't do enough of that.

Matt:

and listen to understand, not just respond. I heard you say that before. And as we hear communications, especially on the world news, and anything else you can tell the debate is not about a topic it's personal it's trying to trap that other individual that they're discussing or debating with into saying something that they can

Gordon:

you're absolutely right.

Matt:

the

Gordon:

You that in the discourse and whether it's at the state legislature, even the county commission, you know, you get into that and, and people come in, they they're, they're emotionally charged up. And and so they're there to make a point. Uh, Not to understand. And yeah, you see that sometimes even in conferences, somebody will get up and ask a question. It's one of my pet peeves, somebody will get up and ask a question and their main objective is to make sure everybody knows that they're smart. They're intelligent. And they're able to ask this question. So the ask a question, the speaker, and then they walk away. Don't even listen to the speakers answer. I've seen it happen more than too, but it's it has, you have to be intentional with it. You absolutely do. And it starts with respect just being able to listen and, and be able to understand.

Matt:

Tell us along those lines. Tell us a little bit more about the Dale Carnegie program. In fact, let's, let's go all the way back and talk about Mr. Carnegie himself. Um, for those that may not or remember any more history than his name's on the library on main street, talk a bit about Mr. Carnegie and the program that you're working with

Gordon:

I have a, so Dale Carnegie, he died when I was two years old, so I didn't get to know him personally, but I have met some of his family. They actually still own Dale Carnegie training. Dale Carnegie grew up. He actually was born in Mary's Maryville in north. Missouri. It's where he is born. And then he, his family were farmers. They moved to Bentonville and then he went to Warrensburg skill. It was the Missouri normal skill. It was like Emporia state. It was a teacher's college. So he went to school there. After he finished school, he sold you'll appreciate this. He sold four armor meats in Nebraska. And And, he did that for a while. He was, he was excellent. He was very personable and he made enough money. He always wanted to go to New York and be an actor on Broadway. And so he went to New York, he got a part in a play and he failed miserably. He was broke. And, and so the story goes that he was staying at the YMCA in New York. And he decided that he could teach other people how to do public speaking. And so he's, he traded out his room and board there at the Weiss and he taught some of there at that time, the lion stain was not an exercise workout place. It was actually a kind of a for for young men, young Christian men. And it was kind of a, it was a an outreach actually. And so anyway, as, as that developed he moved out of the Y and the, it really, it really took off there in New York and, and consequently it became, he became the first self-improvement leader. Somebody that really helped people improve themselves. And of course he wrote "how to win friends and influence people" in 1938. And that was a bestseller, then it was, it was a book of great hope for people in the depression and then the training that he was doing really morph it. It really morphed into what we do today with better communications with others, as we talked about better relationships being able to. Elevate your self-confidence and then also being able to grow your leadership and the other kicker we call them five drivers of success. The, the other one is being able to manage your stress and worry. Carnegie was one of the first ones to identify stress and worry as a leadership inhibitor. And so the program grew and It is now somewhere around 80 or 90 countries, 30 languages. My, I love when we do our franchise meetings because you get, you get to see people from all over the world. And I actually have actually got to know quite a few internationals that have the Dale Carnegie franchise for their country. And it's been, that's been a real fun thing. I got involved with Carnegie. I was actually 60 years old. So it was nine years ago when I was in my first Dale Carnegie class. And I took it because I thought I wanted to send some folks from the four H foundation through the program. So I was looking around to find it. I knew several people that had taken the Dale Carnegie class. I was looking around to find it. And I finally found a finally found they did it in Kansas city. And actually I went to bill knew because I was a little frustrated and I thought, you know, we really need to do some leadership training and I went to bill news. You would probably know, and he's a bank of there. Tommy is one of our with the four forage foundation and bill said, well, he says, I think that's a great idea to send some of your staff to the Dale Carnegie class Gordon. I've done that with our staff. Have you ever taken the Dale Carnegie class? And I thought, is that an indictment on me? And that was added That was actually my attitude going into it because I thought, you know, I'm good. I don't get it. I don't I'm I'm here to check it out for somebody else. Right. And you don't do that in the Dale Carnegie class. I mean, from the get go, you are. You are in a Dale Carnegie class. And whether you whether you thought you were going to sit on the sideline or not, you're not going to sit on the sideline you are in the class. And it was kind of funny because there's just several things I learned the first two or three weeks I'm caught up where in the world was, is like 34 years ago when I actually used it. When I was I could actually, I can still go back to the crossroads of my career and going, you know, I could have done that different. And that's why it's easy now for me to go back and reflect and think. Yeah. Yep. There's, there's there's probably a lot of reasons why why I made that mistake and, and I could have done that differently. So anyway, after I, after I took the class on that, man, this is powerful stuff. And I I talked to Karen, I said, I don't know what the Lord's doing. But I said, I feel like this is something that I'd like to be a part of. And so we ended up buying the Kansas franchise for Dale Carnegie. We have all of Kansas except for Johnson, wine dot Leavenworth county. They're in the Missouri franchise area. And so we've been doing the Dale Carnegie class. As well as public speaking classes we have sales classes. We offer as well as leadership training for managers. And so we have different tracks and workshops. Our team is pretty small, our team our team. Kind of took a hit during COVID, as you can imagine. And we ended up having we lost some folks during that time because of layoffs and, and getting them back. We, we really are at a point where we need, we need more trainers and we've got folks in the pipeline, but that's one of the things about Carnegie is that we are ISO certified. And so the way you, and you're all about certification, right? So.

Matt:

certification

Gordon:

of training you have in Wichita, Kansas is going to be comparable to the training. You're going to get in New York city or wherever else you do it throughout the world. And so there is a regiment you have to go to, to become a Dale Carnegie trainer. And I think that's what distinguishes us and what we do is different than a lot of others because of because of that regimen. That we put people through in order to become a Dale Carnegie trainer. You can't just go down to best buy and take it off the shelf and plug it in. actually have to be able to know how to coach and, and be able to do the things to help others improve.

Matt:

So who would your typical client be? I mean, are most of those corporations that are having their upper-level management go through the course? Are they community foundations that bring in a lot of small businessmen? How work? does that

Gordon:

Our top clients are in ag. We've, we've very, and I can I can just tell you, we do quite a bit of work with the cooperative system and not only not only with, on the farm co-op side, but also even on the elect on the telecommunication side we have some great points there. Manufacturing, finance. Um, Those are, those are two areas. We do quite a bit of work in and so we do public classes where people can sign up online and, and put themselves into a class that we're offering. We also do quite a, quite a few in-house events if we can. We love in-house events because we can really cater that for the specific industry or the particular corporation that we're working with. We did a, we did a sales training for a manufacturing group in Wichita, right in the middle of COVID. And we did a digitally, so we did it on a zoom type platform that we use. And they had 25 salespeople all over the United States and cleaned one person that's based in Dubai. And so being able to give that type of consistent training to their corporation was just really fun to be a part of that. And that's one thing with COVID it's, it's, it's been good and bad, and I know you guys have talked about it in the past with the previous. Segments that you've had here, but, you know, COVID has done some good things. And that part of that is just how we can communicate. How we can get around is a lot simpler than it was three years ago. We've trained our, we train people that this isn't, this isn't some foreign thing that we have to worry about getting online and talking to somebody across the nation or across the state or even across down that's not a bad, a bad use of time. It's actually pretty efficient.

Matt:

yeah, no doubt about it. Five pillars there of uh, of the program and I didn't get them all written down. Can you go through them again for me?

Gordon:

we call them five drivers of success and Carnegie identified them. You know, if, if you do all these things, well, you're going to be successful. And so it starts with better communications with others. Okay. And then the second one has to be. With better relationships Carnegie and his book, how to win friends and influence people. He identified 30 human relationship principles. Uh, The first nine have to do with building rapport, being a friendly person the next set of principles in that 30 there's 11 that deal with winning people to your way of thinking. And then the last nine principles have to do with leadership. How do you correct behavior without killing the relationship, which we see happening quite a bit. And so I'll just talk about the other then. So you have better communications, better relationships, elevating self-confidence. People are afraid sometimes that they're going to fail. So they don't. No, they don't step out to take that risk or they're, they're afraid they may be made fun of in some situations. So, you know, those are those are things that have to do with building self-confidence, you know, and when you know that. Anytime you do something that's uncomfortable, you're going to grow from. And I think it was Simon Sinek said that comfort and growth can't coexist. You've got, you've got to be uncomfortable in order for you to grow personally. And so that's part of what we do within the class as well. And then of course being able to grow your leadership. And when we talk about leaders, we're not talking about somebody that's in charge. We're talking about somebody that can influence others. And we we often talk about when we ask people, you know, are you a leader? And we'll usually, typically we'll have half the class raised their hands yell. I supervise somebody, what do we, we emphasize that you can lead. You can actually lead your boss and your boss will actually appreciate you leading. Now to find a new solution. And so there's a set of principles that we, we teach with that. And then the last one has to do with the stress and worry, which is a big deal. And that's actually of all the things that I've seen the. seven years that we've been active. That's probably one hat that has grown more, particularly for young people. The, the stress and worry, like part of it's financial part of it's the relationships. I mean, it's all those things that are into it and we don't, we don't get rid of stress, but we can learn how to manage it. And so that's part of part of what we do is.

Matt:

well, I think I would echo that because maybe I was just this slow on the draw, but the only one that I got written down and finally was listening. It was the fifth one. When you said manage stress and worrying. And I remembered that one. So uh,

Gordon:

one. And and you can see why and it's, and it's, it's intergenerational. It's not just for young people who I didn't want to, didn't want to imply.

Matt:

of ages of folks that you work with 20 to 70 tighter than that

Gordon:

is in the classes. I think I'm too old to take this class. She's in a class we're doing right now to bring you to this. I think I'm too old to be in this class. I said, well, how old are you? And she told me, I said, well, you're actually two years older than I was right to the class.

Matt:

and now you own a franchise.

Gordon:

can, maybe she can own her own, but now I it's, it's actually very applicable for any age. Certainly those are going to benefit the most are those that are, are younger and and have they have an upper ramp ahead of them, but the, the principles and all of that, it's, it's, it's intergenerational. And I heard you talk earlier about being a lifetime learner. Yeah, this is something you have to continue to work with. It's like anything else you think about businesses that were very, very successful and then all of a sudden they fell off the end of the table. Well, they took, they took success for granted, right. And we can do. We can do that as right. That we can be okay, I've got this down. I know what I'm doing. And I have to tell you, you may, I, I'm not exempt from having my own challenges, whether it's with family or, or with a staff that we work with or other franchisees and other areas, there's always room for improvement. We can always improve, even if you're almost 70 years.

Matt:

well, and I think that the expectation for. Effective communication is a little bit of a moving target as well. Right? Um, basics about communication. In my opinion, shaking hands would be part of that. Well, years ago, one of the hardest parts for me selling bowls in the spring of 2020 was not shaking hands with the guy or gal after. in my backyard. And, you know, you, we all were overly cautious. There were, we were hearing about all the we were supposed to be doing and, and um, you know, communication got changed and, and I think we're still feeling a few effects, but yeah, it's, it's a little bit of a moving target on what people expect. Um, and think that anyone that is helping teach proper communication is, is the franchise is going to have a half quite a bit of business I'd say going forward always because it's a necessary

Gordon:

I appreciate that. And I think that the challenge we have with these interpersonal relationships is that they, they can get fractured. And you see this, I mean, we've taught, we've already talked about it, but a lack of respect. We'll break down a relationship quicker than anything. And because we have our own perceptions about what they're thinking about, or why, why is that guy wearing a mask? You know? And, and don't know his story. We can't presume anything. I know off a lot of people that are willing to presume that, you know, that it's a political thing. That's why he's wearing a mask. He may not, you may not know that his wife has ALS or, or has some other underlying condition that he can not afford to take any risks. And so that respect, respect is just such a need that we have in our society. Perhaps more than maybe the other, any other thing right now, in terms of our culture and our, our, our whole way of doing things in our country.

Matt:

Yup. Yup. On, on both sides, for sure. For sure. So as I was looking for your phone number, because all I had um, want to be millennial that I am here, all I had once your Facebook messenger to get ahold of you to book this podcast. actually, I was Googling your email address and. An article popped up from, I think it was 2017 or 18 that was titled the death of loyalty. And I, I sped read it because it was just a little while ago and I didn't have time to read it all, but have. I read this. And then I looked back at the date to make sure that I saw it right. wasn't written post COVID. Yeah. Um, I think you were a little ahead of your time, but talk to us a little bit about that notion that you were talking about back then um, on, on, the death of

Gordon:

well, we do quite a bit of research Dale Carnegie associates. We do an awful lot of research with things that are going on within businesses and, and and. So, we have quite a bit of stuff we can lean on. And so I think I was taking it off some research that we had done at the time in terms of loyalty and in the fact that you, we don't have loyalty anymore. And that the illustration that I he reminded me of the story. I kind of forgot about it, but I, and I don't have it in front of me, but if I remember right, I, I shared the story about when I was a kid growing up in Eureka, Canada. We had two drugstores stores at the time we had the Rexall and then we also had city drug and my folks always went the Rexall. And, and so after I got out of college, I was working at the newspaper there and, and one of the assistants at the funeral home came by and picked me up for coffee and he says, let's go have coffee. So I went with him We were walking across the street to the city store. And I thought it was almost like I was committing some sort of heresy by watching into this.

Matt:

Yeah, don't don't let, don't let Ted Mary he see you.

Gordon:

what's going on. I mean that and so you, you look at that today, if you, if you're gonna imagine that here, it's not just, it's not just, we're not talking about drug stores locally. We're talking about. The loyalty that we need for each other and, and for communities and so forth. And so it is, it is a, it's a tough thing, and we all have to be competitive in our businesses and, and with our livelihoods. And so whatever we can do to be loyal, but also especially be loyal in our relationships. I think that that is I think that's one of the challenges we have too, is that. We, we are not taking enough time to make sure that we understand exactly what's going on with people. And I was listening to some music this morning was working on a garden wall that I've been working on for the last 12 years, I think. But anyway, these we'll be over here one of yeah, one of the songs came on had to do with, you know, It was Chris Stapleton song get remembered. So I'm going to put you this whole illustration, but it had to do with, you know, this person that he cares about and what's going on with them. Do they need money? Are they sick? Is there something I can do? And we're fortunate in small town, America, that we still have some remnants of that type of relationship going on. But unfortunately it I'm afraid that it could easily slide away if we're not intentional about those relationships and keeping, keeping in touch with those that we not only care about, but also getting to know people that we don't have that much in common with.

Matt:

yeah, that, that loyalty piece I think that may have been one of the. unfortunate consequences of COVID because I think you don't have to talk to very many well w CEOs, pastors um, there's a lot of, of, uh, entities that people are, and maybe it, maybe it has nothing to do with loyalty, maybe. Other things going on, but, but not coming back um, church to, to work or they're wanting to work from home. And maybe that works for a while, but it was already started and I'd say the pandemic and social distancing and everything else probably

Gordon:

Well, there's been quite a bit studies that are coming out now in terms of the impact that COVID has had with individuals. And I think the bottom line is Matt, is that we were created to be, to be known and also to know, and if you look through our civilization, you know, we work together as a society, but unfortunately we've given license. For people to pull back in and, and, and just take care of their immediate needs without having to get outside and, and see what else is going on with their neighbors and their friends and their family members that that they need to be caring about as well,

Matt:

we have spoken a couple of times with a couple of different uh, past guests, being Curt Hogan from mountain California about this great resignation and about more opportunities. If you look at it from that standpoint of, of working from home and only being in an office one or two days a week um, you know, I, I've worked with a couple of different entities who have employees. I'm on the board of one that um, they're going to be in the office. Tuesdays and Thursdays or Mondays and Wednesdays or something. And the other days are all going to be work from home. They feel like their work, their production and productivity is, is equal to, or greater than it had been. And I guess that may be right. My personal opinion. And I should have asked you first, but um, I'm the

Gordon:

sure I disagree with you

Matt:

now, listen closely enough so that you can respond. Not just so you can understand. Um, my, my personal opinion is that it may work with folks who have already bought into the culture and have been in that office for three or 33 years, and now can work away from the. 60% of the time, but these new hires folks that are just coming in from college never get that opportunity to be learning and growing and communicating day after day after day with their superiors or with their, I shouldn't say spirits with the folks that have already kind of, Their coworkers. That's I'm afraid 5, 7, 10 years down the road is when we go, what happened? These folks, you want to talk about a little reduction in loyalty. These, these young employees have no loyalty. Well, they only spent hours a week in the office uh, to, to

Gordon:

Yeah. And, and there's, you know, and of course, when we talked to, when we talked to our, our clients that are in manufacturing, you know, now you've got to show up.

Matt:

yeah, that, that one, that one there. And farming and ranching would be right there with you. And so most folks are listening to this saying no big deal, but I think it could affect us in terms of getting new employees that expect. It will be working five or six and a half days a week, and can go somewhere else and be at the office two days and the other day, the other three days at home

Gordon:

are some, there are some great advantages with that. My my daughter. She works for a large bank in Dallas. And so she's got a hybrid. She can be home for a couple of days a week, and then she goes to, and it's not her office. It's like a hotel that she goes to. It's a suite that she. As she does her work in for the days that she's there and it may be different than what she has. She has a locker there that she puts her stuff in. And so it's it is a different, it is a different world completely. And so there are some benefits and certainly from a family standpoint, if you have children the opportunity for a parent to be at home with children, you know, who wouldn't, who wouldn't want to have that opportunity. But it, it is, it is a challenge in, in terms of how do you build rapport and how do you keep those relationships? And it is, it is difficult. Our Dale Carnegie organization. Is virtually virtual. I mean, it's just, you know, we are, we that I talked to people day in and day out and they're not in New York city where our headquarters are there. In fact, one of them just moved to Wichita because her husband got a job with a really good company there in Wichita. So she's on our marketing team at corporate. And so there's this there's this, it is a different world, but there's some. Farming ranching being one of them. You got to show up, you can't just call it in. And that's that is going to be an adjustment for all of us mentally and certainly physically.

Matt:

well, it's change is always difficult and uh, but it doesn't mean that not necessary. And, and um, I think as long like you said, hold these five drivers of success, better communications with others, better relationships with other. Elevate your self-confidence grow your leadership and manage your stress and worry. Regardless if we're the, down the hall from someone or, or zooming in for daily meetings or whatever, do it. Everything from remote

Gordon:

And you can, you can do that. And there are are ways to use those techniques, whether you're face-to-face or, or on a telephone, whatever.

Matt:

so let me make sure before I um, finish up with my last and quite possibly most important topic if someone does want to participate in a Carnegie uh, session or class, you said you do offer some public classes online

Gordon:

them we we offer person too. And so we have both. We have lots of different options now. But yeah, we have we have a subscription program, so if they want to get a, if they want to get a particular track, you know, for their employees, they can do that. But we also offer in-person classes. Usually in Wichita, Wichita usually has something going on all the time with a Dale Carnegie class or leadership class or, or our, our high-impact presentation course. We do quite a bit of work in Topeka and Manhattan. And we have we have a class every year out at Hays. And that's just been a, that's just been a great thing for us to be able to work with that group out there. We work with their local chamber there at Hays, so they can certainly get online. They can just get on Dale carnegie.com. And they can find a w they can find whether they're in Kansas or some other location, they can find what's going on publicly, but also there should be communication. There should be some contact information there. If they have a question or, or. Or better yet a problem that they would like to have some help with. And that's what we try to do is work with the clients. So you find out exactly what the situation is and kind of do a little diagnostic work before we go in and try to do something that they may not need.

Matt:

Good, good. So you're my first guest, I believe from Manhattan, Kansas. And uh, this won't, won't pertain to everyone that's listening in here, but this podcast is probably going to drop days prior to our opening football game. How does the uh, does the Wildcat nation feel up that way

Gordon:

we're pretty excited. But we've been here before, right? You have to understand. I was so convinced. Was it in 98 that we were going to. When the big 12 championship against Texas a and M and then. we'd be positioned to be able to play for the national championship. And so I was in St. Louis when that, when the wheels fell off that wagon. And so I've been kind of gun shy sense, but no, I, I think I think we're going to be. Okay. I think we're going to be in great shape if we can keep everybody healthy based on what I see. I don't know any more than you would map, I know, but think just an awful lot of excitement north Dakota's next week. I think it's a six o'clock game and. I think we're all excited. I Kleiman said the other day, he knows the North Dakota coach pretty well. And of course he would because they were in the same conference and in the same state for that. Well, so it'll be uh, it'll be fun to, to see the execution of this season. Our household. However you need to know is we're basketball here. I mean, we are basketball crazy. We've been thick and thin. My wife loves K state basketball. She didn't go to K state to skill. She went to Emporia state, and then she ended up graduating from Hayes. When we moved out to Oakley. When we were freshly married that she is a basketball fan. She ran into, we're picking up our daughter's in-laws at the airport. Yesterday and coach Tang was getting off the plane. And of course, just So she right in the middle of his face and told him that she was his biggest fan. And I can assure him that she is his biggest fan. So we're excited about what's going on there as well. And we just think that's that the quality and the, and the just the values of. Both coach Kleimann and coach Tang, we would just feel really good about where we're K- state as in terms of the character and what, what their emphasis is. I have a, I have a nephew that is a coach high school coach, and he talks about Kleimann you know, he knows the players, he knows the players home towns, and, you know, just make any of those, the coaches, he knows the high school coaches. And he, he talks about just how, how important that is for us to get in state recruits. And that's, it starts again with knowing people, knowing names and being able to hear that relationship all comes back to Dale Carnegie, Matt. So.

Matt:

I figured you'd get that one last end. So that's good. Well, Gordon, thank you very much for your time today. I appreciate it. It's been a great, conversation as always, and please give Karen our best and uh, have a great weekend.

Gordon:

family. Aye. All right. Bye-bye.

Matt:

Thanks for joining us for practically ranching, brought to you by Dalebanks Angus. If you enjoyed the podcast, heck even if you didn't... help us improve by leaving a comment with your review wherever you heard us. And if you want to listen again, click subscribe and catch us next week. God bless, and we look forward to visiting again soon.