Practically Ranching

#28 - Cheramie Viator - Building. Better. Beef.

December 07, 2022 Matt Perrier Season 1 Episode 28
Practically Ranching
#28 - Cheramie Viator - Building. Better. Beef.
Show Notes Transcript

Cheramie Viator is a lifelong beef producer. She was raised on a family farm in Louisiana, has worked for some of the nation's largest ranches and now hangs her hat near Houston, TX, as she balances her day job with Westway Feeds while managing her family's cowherd and putting on youth cattle clinics in her free time.
Throughout her career in the beef industry, Cheramie has found ways to promote junior programs and inspire those around her to best tell cow-calf producers' story to consumers and all segments within our industry.

Matt:

Well, hello and thanks for listening to practically ranching episode 28. I'm Matt Perrier. And today we get to visit with Cheramie Viator. Cheramie is originally from Louisiana. She now lives near Houston, Texas. And she's lived and worked on various ranches in various regions across our great country. This episode, we'll talk about the diversity of cow herd size in the nation. Uh, we'll talk about the diversity of scopes and the focus of all these different ranches that share me has witnessed and worked for. We'll talk about the varying perspectives that today's consumer has about our beef industry. We'll talk about discipline of management and genetic selection. We'll talk about its relationship to ranch, longevity and sustainability. And we'll talk about how we best connect the dots of all of these different aspects of, of ranches and of ranchers. To hopefully build better beef. And become more profit oriented in our industry. Speaking of disciplined. Many of you called me out to notice that I skipped an episode last week. Between our, uh, post-sale follow-up and the bull deliveries and starting our fall AI program here at, uh, Dalebanks. I missed our first episode since we started this project back last, late, last may, early June. And I'm admittedly. This may have stuck. so. This little weekly podcast that we created may have just turned biweekly or every other week. Definitely not twice a week. Um, so whatever it is that describes it. We will look forward to being back here the week prior to Christmas. And so, God willing, we'll talk to you then. And I hope that you have a blessed advent season. enjoy that with your family and as always. Thanks for listening to practically ranching.

Track 1:

Well, Cheramie, thank you for joining us today on Practically Ranching. Tell me where you are Right this instant.

cheramie-viator_2_12-05-2022_191202:

I am in Tomba, Texas, and that would be, if you thought about Houston as a clock, would be at about 12 o'clock on the north side of Houston. Um, kinda on the edge of what used to be the country and is a growing suburb of Houston these days.

Track 1:

There are, uh, there are plenty of those as you go around Houston or Denver or Kansas City or pick your major metropolitan area and I, I think that's probably the case.

cheramie-viator_2_12-05-2022_191202:

Yeah, and you know, I found a little piece of heaven. I'm very lucky, um, to where I'm located, have a little bit of lease ground and some, an older couple, and a family that's multigenerational that they have, um, a small home place that their family's owned since the twenties and, uh, or quite some time. And they are going to, they're determined to keep it that way until some of the, elder generation generational folks pass on. And I get to live there. So I have a little piece of heaven in the middle of, uh, all the suburbs.

Track 1:

Good. Good for you. And, and, um, I'd say they're glad that somebody's there to keep it going and looking somewhat like agriculture instead of, uh, asphalt concrete. Good.

cheramie-viator_2_12-05-2022_191202:

are.

Track 1:

Super deal. We'll, before we get too far into it, um, give us all a little bit of history of Cheramie and, and what has, uh, brought you full circle where you grew up and where you've worked professionally and, and what has brought you to today in Tom Ball, Texas.

cheramie-viator_2_12-05-2022_191202:

I have, uh, had one. Heck of a, a ride the best way to describe it. Um, I grew up in South Louisiana and did all the typical four H and showing cattle things that, uh, most of us of my generation, you know, did. And my parents were incredibly supportive. Had an uncle who was, um, cow man, and he and a gentleman named Paul St. Blanc started love and kind of grew that, uh, for the cattle business in beef business. And ended up, uh, on four H judging teams and just was real active. Did all the usual kind of stuff, decided I wanted. Go to school to judge, um, outside of Louisiana ended up at a little junior college up in the Texas panhandle called Claredon Junior College. Spent a few years up there, and while I was there, uh, my judging team coached Jerry Hawkins, introduced me to Mini Lou Bradley, and we always joked around that. Um, he sent me to Miu on weekends to learn how to speak English, so I might have had just a little bit of a Cajun accent at that point. And When Clarendon went to a and m, uh, from a and m I did an internship in Washington, DC Uh, it was life changing for me. I worked for US Congressman for two years. A lot of folks don't even know that, uh, these days. And, uh, spent some time doing, uh, had a state legislative gig for a while I got to just kinda got to missing the cow world. Uh, went to grad school for a little while and then this job came up. Charles Crochet called me and said, Hey, uh, would you come to work with me at this place called Camp Cooley Ranch? And I thought, you know, if I wanna get done with grad school, that's. My dream job. So I actually didn't finish grad school and went to work at Camp Cooley we had Angus and Braus and Charle cattle there at the heyday of Camp Cooley. We sold about a thousand bulls annually, and I did everything from private treaty bull sales there to um, hay sales. I coordinated, we sold about quarter million square bales a year, and then, uh, kind of towards the end of my tenure, I handled all the bull sales out west and um, I loved it cuz I would just go to California, Nevada and drive around selling bulls and, and that was awesome. Uh, after Camp Cooley, I went to Silver Spur Ranch, uh, silver Spur runs, uh, a little over 15,000 commercial cows and then, have a set of registered cattle that were Angus and Charolais and Red Angus I was at Silver Spurs several years. Coordinated their gap and N HTC audits all their, um, all natural piece, uh, on the audit side, the bull test. Um, we AIed about anywhere from 2,500 to 3000 heifers each summer coordinated that. And, um, it was a fun ride there. And then, you know, there just comes a point in time where, Um, and I guess I should say along all of that, I'd been sending cows home or my mom had maintained the cows that we had. And I can remember there was a winter when it was real icy in Texas and my mom just said, really getting tired of this and she was taking care of, of the cows that we had this little handful. And so I started looking for a job to come back to Texas. Um, had some opportunities to consult and then this found, um, kind of fell into my lap. A previous boss of mine, Joe Fuller, recommended me to Westway Feed products and I came back to Texas and I've been with Westway for six years now. Um, they're the largest liquid feed manufacturer in the country, and it fits for me. Kind of talking about, comes full circle because in South Louisiana, um, a multi-generational sugar cane, uh, family sugar cane production family. So the molasses end of it coming from sugar cane. I understood that. So it works. And I live, like I said earlier in the introduction on the north side of Houston. Uh, my mom is at College Station on the north side we run cows on lease places from Tomball to College Station. And that's kind of, uh, down and dirty summary of, um, the last, I say, 20 or so years, matt. Yes.

Track 1:

That's, uh, that's a, a pretty good summary and, uh, kind of a who's who of the beef industry. Who was your congressional internship with in dc?

cheramie-viator_2_12-05-2022_191202:

Well, he was actually a Democrat. I interned with Congressman Jim Chapman, I can tell you that at that point honestly didn't know the difference between a Democrat and a Republican when I interned and.

Track 1:

know, in some ways I would say those were the good old days, get. I get tomatoes thrown at me from every pickup truck going down the road right now. But, I was curious because, you know, with names like Paul St. Blanc and Jerry Hawkins, and Minnie Lou Bradley, Charles Crochet, um, Joe Fuller, I mean, you have gotten an opportunity to have 18 or 20, um, Kind many who's who internships, um, and do it professionally through the last couple decades. And, and, um, you can learn a lot from those folks. I would, I would say

cheramie-viator_2_12-05-2022_191202:

A

Track 1:

or I sure could.

cheramie-viator_2_12-05-2022_191202:

absolutely. I am who I am because of all of those people. Um, by. By fault of my own or not fault of my own. Um, the character building opportunities that I've had were large. And, and you know, that internship when I interned with Jim Chapman, that was during the when, um, nafta, the original writing of, of. Composing of NAFTA was going on. So I got the experience of, uh, cause of he was in a, a large dairy district. You know, I learned a lot about the dairy industry at that point. And then the next step in my congressional tenure was with another Democrat, Congressman Che Edwards. And, and Chet, I always kitted with him and told him he was a closet Republican. Um, and he had a, a very strong ag base in central Texas. And when you spend time in, Washington, DC as a young person, e especially a naive for that has an agriculture background. It was really eyeopening, um, to, to have that opportunity. And I encourage kids every day now to, to get some type of legislative, uh, experience in their, uh, college career if possible.

Track 1:

Yeah, as ugly as it sometimes is, the, the old line making laws is kinda like making sausage. Um, nobody wants to see that process. it is pretty educational and, um, it makes, makes some things make some sense. And I would say that today's scenario there in DC, is probably significantly different than when, when you were there, what, what years were you there? She.

cheramie-viator_2_12-05-2022_191202:

I would've been there or actually spring of 94, and then I worked for CH Edwards about 95 to 97 ish. Kind of, kind of guesstimating there if remembering dates and, and it was, the culture was extremely different because you could, at that point in time an intern and even as a staffer, you could go to dinner or go to lobbyist events or socials. And be with folks across the aisle it wasn't a big deal. And today it's a huge deal. if you, you know, our crowd today we're a very conservative value, crowd and it's just a whole different set of values and how the world is viewed in the quote woke crowd or younger crowd. And there's not as much across the aisle socialization as there was when I was.

Track 1:

Yep. Yep. It's, um, it's sad to see and heck, Thanks to, not that this is what drove it, but it couldn't helped. Um, thanks to the campaign reform rules and things like that. I don't think many of them can even, can even have one of those dinners if anybody that is a lobbyist type or a Yeah pack or anything else is involved. They have, they have so many rules there that they don't, they don't even get together socially anymore, I don't think. Uh,

cheramie-viator_2_12-05-2022_191202:

And you know, one, one of the things that was important in my tenure there was whether it be NAFTA or the 95 Farm Bill. Um, and at that time, Charlie Stenholm would've been on the democratic side, and then you would've had some really strong Republicans that we met as from, or staff members, and worked together to on legislation or even constituent concepts back in the districts of what was it that were needed to do, you had that across aisle conversation. So it is very different today.

Track 1:

So in that same vein, you've lived, I think primarily in rural areas, with the exception of DC and now of course, Tomba 30 years ago would be different than what it is today. But what have you seen change in terms of the. Rural versus urban, suburban, uh, communication development. Their understanding of us, our understanding of them. how, how does that affect both today and, and what you've seen in, in production ag throughout your, your tenure.

cheramie-viator_2_12-05-2022_191202:

Encroachment, um, would be a big piece that's very different just used to be ag areas. Um, you'll see suburban areas just growing and growing and growing and closer together. the internet I think has probably driven unfactual. Or the opportunity for incorrect information as much. It has, it has provided opportunity for factual information we, unfortunately, in agriculture, tend to bury our head in the sand and think that there's not, problems with, information that's not correct about agriculture out there, that the consumer is wrong. When you live in a metropolitan area and you work in, I work in the Woodlands, and you begin to understand and have a whole different perspective about, there's way more who are out there that are consumers. that make buying decisions that they don't understand our world and probably aren't going to unless we help them to understand. And I think that's a growing number exponentially.

Track 1:

Yeah, there's no doubt about it. I mean, we hear 2% involved in animal or in in production, agriculture, farming, and ranching. I today it's probably. Edging closer to 1%, it's gonna continue. Um, you've seen a lot of different folks try it through the years, through checkoff programs, through things like the, the Gap in n HTC programs you were working with there at Silver Spur. What's the best way that we as producers can tell that story in a way that makes sense to our consumers? Isn't so. Data and info heavy that they lose interest before we even get to the meat of the matter, so to speak. Um, and, and who needs to tell that message? Who, who, who does that the best or how do we do it the best?

cheramie-viator_2_12-05-2022_191202:

I guess that's a kind of a, a multi pointed question, I offer folks. Of all ages that in this concept learn three to five or five to 10 facts about the beef industry that are. Conversation starters, fact base that you can have a discussion about, um, if you're on an airplane, if you're at your doctor's office, you're a kid that's in high school, whatever your, your stage is in life and, and be willing to have that discussion. You know, you go to your doctor and he's talking about, well, you need to cut down a red meat. Well have a, have some facts in your memory. Bank of the, you know, beef in terms of being high and iron. Cetera, et cetera. Or if you're somewhere and somebody's talking about cattle or bad for the environment, you don't know some facts about up cycling and how cata, uh, you know, create or, or convert forges into protein. And if you have just three to five good facts, willing to to have that conversation. And, and I find that as much as anything is you. Are willing to have that conversation in a very professional demeanor, being You can have a conversation and there's times where I'll have that conversation with someone and you come to a point and you just say, okay, we agree to disagree. I just, I'm glad that you were willing to listen. To what I had to say. And I think there's probably more times than not that you plant a seed for somebody to, to walk away and think about those things. So that's one thing is to learn, um, just facts and, and kind of keep it in your memory bank. And like I said, it doesn't matter if you're a 60. Five year old rancher and you know you're gonna see your preacher or or your priest, you're gonna see folks when you go buy a truck at the truck dealership, you're gonna see somebody. When you go to the bank, you're gonna talk to your doctor. All of those are opportunities to have that conversation, and I think that we have to start having those conversations. Or else, and I say this when I judge cattle shows, if we don't have those conversations, Our facts and our story. The other side is gonna tell a story that we probably don't like their version of the story. So that's kind of one point. And then the next piece is, is I've selected I feel are tomorrow's consumers and begun to focus on an age group, um, to present information and factual information to encourage. To be beef consumers of the future. Cause I think that if, you know, and that group is basically kids in school and high school kids predominantly, uh, because I think those kids are influenceable I hope to be that lays a path of influence towards our direct. So that, that's kind of the point that I guess, Matt, for me, that is know your facts and then for me personally, I picked a group to focus on

Track 1:

How do you get to those high school kids? How, how are you doing that?

cheramie-viator_2_12-05-2022_191202:

me personally. Um, we're doing a, a clinic, uh, started it back in 2020 and do, I've done a couple of these year and I, we call it not your ordinary cattle. And it's not in competition with, say, show supply stock show you. It's very different where they focus on fitting and their hair aspect. focus on instead, showmanship and I use that as a vehicle to get young people to attend. But what they don't know is the real reason why they're there is that yes, we'll spend half a day talking about showmanship and those kids showing, but we also talk about V Q A and. Uh, you know, how we handle vaccines are, is important and how to give shots correctly, et cetera. And then we talk about beef advocacy. Um, we'll talk, go in and do some sessions about just the same thing that I just said about knowing, you know, five to 10 facts about the beef industry. Um, when time allows, we'll do some role playing. where if somebody meets up with somebody that, that maybe isn't a believer in the beef industry, how to handle. Situation. what starts out is they come to a showmanship clinic, but I hope they leave as a believer and promoter in the beef industry in understanding that they're a part of the beef industry. And you have to understand where I'm at, Matt, there's probably several hundred four H and FFA groups. I don't know, 150 miles of me. And, and if we could touch a, even just a small percentage of those to get those kids thinking about, you know, because the majority of'em aren't gonna be involved in agriculture, but they are gonna be consumers

Track 1:

For sure, and, and that's. Getting an opportunity to open that door and have the conversation is, is probably the toughest part. And you go back to your first, your first item there and being willing to have that conversation and do it in a professional enough manner that you don't get POed and, and rip somebody's head off for being a vegan. And that's where I think we get as group of producers. That's where we get intimidated the most because we, number one, don't have a lot of PR and media training. We we may not, we may go for days or weeks at a time and not see anybody outside of the guy or gal that we work with or live with or family or whatever. And so we get into that situation. Plus, we're super passionate about what it is we.

cheramie-viator_2_12-05-2022_191202:

I was gonna to

Track 1:

Yeah. That's probably the biggest driver, right?

cheramie-viator_2_12-05-2022_191202:

we're passionate. You're talking about our livelihoods

Track 1:

Yeah. And, and our parents and grandparents and multi-generations of live.

cheramie-viator_2_12-05-2022_191202:

You know, kids and grandkids, the future. And so heck yeah. We get passionate and we get fired up about. but if you have that conversation in a tone, and it's everything from your body language being factual and being willing to, know, ask questions back and forth and have a dialogue. well, why, why are you a vegan? What is your preference? Well, did you know such and such or such and such, and a fact-based conversation without becoming argumentative? I get a lot further, um, down the road and, you know, there's, like I said, there's quite a few times where we disagree to disagree, but you know what? Hey, I hope you have a great day. I really enjoyed visiting with you, and I leave that person. You know, that's somebody in the beef industry that is a decent human being never had an argument, and I think that's really, really important.

Track 1:

Yeah. The other, the other part of that, I think is if you can get them to ask you the questions, even if they get fired up, even if they try to trap you or you know, use some false accusation that they heard from AOC or on CNN or whatever the case may be when they start asking us the questions. And give us an opportunity to address all of the misconceptions that they may already have from wherever. I think that's where the real value is, but conversation started is the toughest part.

cheramie-viator_2_12-05-2022_191202:

then we win that

Track 1:

Yep, yep.

cheramie-viator_2_12-05-2022_191202:

because a lot of their information. Is incorrect

Track 1:

Right, right.

cheramie-viator_2_12-05-2022_191202:

can provide information. Um, and I love being in airports. That's probably, I'm not somebody that wants to get on a plane and have a conversation, but you know, if you sitting there in an airplane and you have a. You know what? Angus Journal or J'S Journal or whatever, you know, print media that you're, I carry lots with me just for that reason. And they'll eventually a que, well, do you ranch or do you have cattle or something? You know, seven out of 10 times it's a conversation starter and you don't have to have a hour long conversation where on a plane, just two or three minutes and leave it alone.

Track 1:

Yep. Yep. I think that's, uh, Good way to do it. And, and, uh, yeah, there's, there's a million different ways to do it, but I think the first step is just having the, the opportunity or, or finding the opportunity and having the guts to, to have that conversation. And I applaud you for doing so. Uh, switching gears just a little bit, kind of along the same lines though, between. big cities and little towns that sometimes vastly different. Um, you've worked for some pretty big ranches and now would be operating a probably small to mid-sized ranch. Um, there. The same or more differences between big ranch culture and small single family part-time farmer Ranch as compared to big cities in in rural America.

cheramie-viator_2_12-05-2022_191202:

So I have this conversation quite often with, with Mary Lou Bradley and Mary Lou gives me a lot of grief over being a weekend warrior now, and it it is exponentially harder to be a small producer. Than it was when I worked for the large ranches because, I mean, just economies of of scale. You know, when you order mineral by the truckload, are you, your opportunities of how you order vaccines are just, there's so many things that you do on scale that are very different, um, here everything from labor to land cost. Um, marketing calves, all a different mindset and I've had to adjust dramatically, but I also look at it as an opportunity because so many people that if you look at the numbers that own less than 50 head. So I, I think that's, um, if anything I, I choose to make it a positive. In my mind, I've kind of had to justify it, I guess.

Track 1:

Yeah, I, I actually just looked this up and, um, now these, these numbers are a little dated. They're from U S D A, um, St. National a statistics service, and I think they must do it every five years in 2020. Twos survey is just taking place. And so I'm sure we, we may not see it for three or four years, but this would be from 2012 and 2017. And they, they weren't a lot different honestly. But, uh, the long and short of it was cows. Herds less than a hundred head make up 46 to, I think 48. No, actually 44 to 46%. So less than half of the cow herd by number of cows are in groups of one to 99 head.

cheramie-viator_2_12-05-2022_191202:

Absolutely.

Track 1:

and yet the owners of those that just under half would make up 91% of operations.

cheramie-viator_2_12-05-2022_191202:

And

Track 1:

nine per, oh, go ahead.

cheramie-viator_2_12-05-2022_191202:

and most of those owners don't make a living off that cow herd and their time to manage them is.

Track 1:

Right. their time to not just manage them, but you know, professional. Development and continuing ed and BQA certified and all these other deals read Theros Journal or the Angus Journal or whatever the case may be. Um, so then those 9% of operations that have over a hundred head, um, make up 54% of the cows and they

cheramie-viator_2_12-05-2022_191202:

Right.

Track 1:

further. Um, this was pretty interesting to me that. Hundred head to 500 head. They call it a hundred to 499 7% of the operations in total. And 36% of the cows reside in those a hundred to 500 heads. And then the 500 plus are like a percent and half of operations, and they make up just shy of 20% of the cows. So my question to you before we get to a bunch more dynamics, How big versus little or different, and you already said a lot of the obvious ones is, is economies of scale and, and the ability to, you know, differentiate your labor and things like that. Where do you see this going, uh, in terms of the next 5, 10, 25 years as far. Big operations and, and, and I, I would even break this down and say, let's say the thousand cow operations and bigger as opposed to not just the one to 99 head, but those hundred to 500 head herds. What, how do you see those sorting out in the next, next decades?

cheramie-viator_2_12-05-2022_191202:

if you drew a circle around large metropolitan areas, if you started at 50 miles outside the the and then you went a hundred miles, The, that number of a hundred or less is going to continue to grow be just because of land availability and those larger operations that are a thousand head or more, they're going to become focused and located in areas it's harder to develop. And it's more arid ground perhaps, or it's just not gonna be feasible to put a housing development down. But in those areas where it is feasible, I think we're gonna see the numbers of small operations continue to grow at a rapid rate. And so it kind of a divergence, I don't wanna say the big get bigger, but I'm gonna say there's gonna be a spread I think it's gonna become more and more challenging. That ha that hundred to 500 head operation to survive is gonna be the real challenge because that guy that runs a hundred or less is probably gonna have a day job. And then that guy that runs, you know, over a hundred to 500, he's trying to make a living on just cows versus that guy that runs 600 and, you know, thousand 1500, 2500, he's gonna be out somewhere further away from a metropolitan area. And has the opportunities to market, buy, et cetera, in a different buying, uh, level, buy and sell at a different level.

Track 1:

Yeah, I, I don't disagree with you. Um, I would love to, As I have talked with neighbors, as I have talked with customers, as I have seen even in the last couple of years, and I think I've had this conversation on here before. It may have been with Joe Goggins there in, in an Angus podcast a couple weeks ago, but I'm amazed at how many of those in that segment you're talking, I would even say 200 to 500. That were making a living for a family off of the cowher or predominantly off of the cow hert, who just over the last two or three years have said, you know, man, this is a lot of work. This is a 52 week of year gig. Um, if I'm in a decent farming area, I can terminate this grass or this fes and plant beans and look what I could make as a farmer, or I can run. short season grazing cattle for three months in the summer and, and make a pretty good living and do something else for the other nine months. I, I, it's amazing to me how many people, not necessarily retirement age, but my age-ish Yeah. Who are at least considering or if not, have already made a change away from cows and into something else. uh, it may still be in agriculture, it's cow.

cheramie-viator_2_12-05-2022_191202:

or when their son or daughter want to come home and be involved in the operation. Their diversification has generated the opportunity for a lot of creativity

Track 1:

Right.

cheramie-viator_2_12-05-2022_191202:

centers. the other thing is we've had to become

Track 1:

And have you seen that creativity be in addition to the cowher or replace a portion of said cowher?

cheramie-viator_2_12-05-2022_191202:

I'd say in addition to,

Track 1:

Yeah, and that one I like.

cheramie-viator_2_12-05-2022_191202:

yeah, a lot of us have a really bad cow habit and, you know,

Track 1:

well, all those 50 cow and down,

cheramie-viator_2_12-05-2022_191202:

Exactly.

Track 1:

be honest, that's what that is.

cheramie-viator_2_12-05-2022_191202:

I, I love. Western culture and western values, and part of my passion for the beef business is the value system, and

Track 1:

right,

cheramie-viator_2_12-05-2022_191202:

willing to, to give it up. I mean, I honestly, I could quit raising cattle and have a pretty easy gig. You know, maybe have a, a house and a lake and a boat and do those things, but I, I refuse to give it up because, I truly love raising cattle and the value system and the culture, and I think that is where a lot of people, they have that same passion, might not be willing to let go and may be willing to become more creative, to be able to continue on. I don't think we're, status quo is not gonna be successful going forward.

Track 1:

So how do we as a beef industry balance, if, and I don't see this happening to this extreme, and I hope and pray that it doesn't for my family's sake, but if we go to the extreme of everybody either being 50 head and down as a side gig, that makes'em feel like they are connected to the Western way of life. Or a thousand and up or 5,000 and up or whatever the, the level may be. And we lose this bread and butter that I said right now makes up 7% of the operations. But well over a third of the cow hert in that hundred to 500 head operation, the bread and butter of most cow country and rural America. Um, if that becomes zero operations, how do we make the beef industry work when we've got a, a large percentage of the operations raising a small percentage of the cows, and then a few great bigs that have got control and have consolidated and have, have got control of two-thirds of the cow heart.

cheramie-viator_2_12-05-2022_191202:

So what happens when this beef on dairy idea? Begins to be a supply mechanism that flattens the beef industry, seasonal supply, and those critters are made in coming out of dairies that, you know, we've gotta keep those dairy cows in production. Is that a dynamic that plays into what you just described?

Track 1:

Well, I think it could, I mean, I, I don't know how many dairy cows, you unless, you know, those folks are making more on their dairy cross caves that are half beef influenced. Than they were when they were straight Holstein calves, obviously cuz there's more value in the beef industry chain, but most of those straight Holstein calves were still making it to market and. The real driver of profitability, at least today, the real driver of profitability is that cow that they're milking. And so I don't know that we see, I I've had this and I can't, I didn't commit it to memory, but I think we're somewhere around 15 or 16% of the fed cattle population that is of dairy origin. And that's still about the same. Now it's just half dairy, uh, the other half being beef. As far as the cedars, I don't know that we see. I may be wrong. I don't know. We see that move to a third, but like you said, it does. It does level that ebb and flow of your typical born in the spring, weaned in the late fall backgrounded come to the Fed market in to late summer where we have these big swings, volume and ha and have to work with, in some respects, from a supply chain standpoint, that's maybe not a bad thing that we can spread that supply out thanks to some of these dairy cross cattle coming through. but it does, I mean, there's no doubt about it. Today's dairy industry is much more consolidated than what today's beef industry has been. Uh, so that, you're right, that throws a, throws a wrench into it as.

cheramie-viator_2_12-05-2022_191202:

I don't like thinking about that as a model. I, I really don't. Um, but I, I think that we are going to have to ways. To become more profit oriented. And is it, you know, focusing those traits, you know, fertility feet ERs and being ultra discipline, um, to create those cattle that maintain and stay in our production systems that we are more efficient? is it that, you know, cutting corners. Finding o other cost mechanisms where we reduce cost or are. me it's trying to find value you know, um, I went and talked to a restaurant about, Hey, you guys had a sign up that you sell local beef in your barbecue restaurant. Who are you sourcing your cattle from for that? And the guy said, well, as a matter of fact, I'm looking for somebody. And I said, well

Track 1:

Because right now,

cheramie-viator_2_12-05-2022_191202:

you

Track 1:

cuz right now I'm calling it local and I'm buying it from Dodge City, Kansas, like everybody else is

cheramie-viator_2_12-05-2022_191202:

Yeah. You know, so I think thinking outside the box, and even these clinics and I that I talked about doing, I don't do'em for sport. There is a, uh, a mechanism there to create a little bit of income. To support my cow habit. And so, I think you we're gonna have to do some things differently and not rely on just the cow to generate in some of those small operations. Now big deal, big operations. It's a different concept.

Track 1:

So how is it different? Because I was just getting ready to go there. I mean, are all the big operations that you have worked for, worked with? are they all, as you said, finding ways to become more profit oriented?

cheramie-viator_2_12-05-2022_191202:

Before we go to the profit oriented part, let me give you an example on just the sheer production end. So you're extremely active in B I F.

Track 1:

Yep.

cheramie-viator_2_12-05-2022_191202:

I'm, I mean, I'm a passionate believer in b f and its concepts, and I am big believer in big contemporary groups. That was one of the things that Camp COO Ranch, Ken Hughes I mean, just adamant about. We didn't sell females till they were yearly. Beyond that, that was a big deal. And then to turn around and have to change my little weekend cow operation that mom and I run sell heifer calves as show heifer prospects, goes against everything against big contemporary groups that I'm so passionate about, but it's a matter of survival. So it's

Track 1:

as a buddy of mine says they're never worth more than they are as ball and calf.

cheramie-viator_2_12-05-2022_191202:

Exactly. Exactly.

Track 1:

Which, which I hate cuz Ken Hughes. I don't wanna split'em up until all the data collected.

cheramie-viator_2_12-05-2022_191202:

Yes. I mean, it hurts my pride because that's what I was brought up on. You know, bill and Minnie, Lou Bradley and Ken Hughes, and you know, Jerry Connealy. Those are the people that were my heroes of this is how you did it. And when you change that mantra and you understand you're breaking the mold of what you're supposed to be doing, it hurts But back on the, what was your question? On the large

Track 1:

Well, you, you. Made mention of finding ways to become more profit oriented. And I agree that's one of the reasons we have this podcast, cuz I think that's what we have to do as, as beef industry participants. We can only rest on that Western culture and way of life and passion and love for this business so long before we have to say it's still and we still gotta make a profit. And my question as we talk. This extremes of cow herd size, ultra small, ultra big, and nothing in the middle is that most of those ultra small producers, and and I hate to generalize because you have just talked about how you all are a smaller side gig type of herd, and you're wanting to be sure that you're profit oriented and that's why you're doing some of the things you have to do. but by and large, a lot of those herds aren't necessarily there to make money. They don't wanna lose too much, but they're just driven by profit. The big that you've worked for, are they strictly driven or they largely driven by profit, or is that also a side gig for some of them As a byproduct of land ownership.

cheramie-viator_2_12-05-2022_191202:

Yes, and yes and no, and no

Track 1:

Okay. That it's not always the same. Huh?

cheramie-viator_2_12-05-2022_191202:

So both Silver Spur and Camp Cooley owners had other and. But with that said, those ranch entities were expected run in a corporate business mindset. And you know, we operated under a budget, we operated under specific expectations performing within that budget. I think those, the reason those operations still there is because their leader. Did just that they are managing to perform to budget expectations. as a small producer, I would like to think that more of us are looking to do that. I don't know that we are though, and and part of it is that I've learned down here is people just don't know. A lot of times I have a neighbor as an example. I just said, Hey, instead of leaving the bull out year round, let me teach you about a calving season. and when they had their calves born within 45 days this year. mean, it was like a big deal. Well, to us who have been in a, you know, if you're in a commercial or registered situation where you're trying to be really efficient, you're gonna sharpen up that cabin season, pull the bulls, and you have a plan and a direction. And I think that's the missing piece in a lot of the small operations is they don't have a plan. But in a large operation, you have strategy and you have direction, and you have a budget, and all of those things coincide into one, and that's how you operate.

Track 1:

Yeah, that was one of the, uh, learning opportunities that I had when I worked down there in, in Texas, New Mexico with the Angus Association, was going to a and m's beef cattle short course. And, uh, the first time I heard about it, I'm like, they're gonna, they're gonna have this, what I term basic remedial type of program and, I don't even remember what it was, like a thousand people or maybe 1500. I don't remember. It's crazy how many people came to that thing and they rubbed it it was that same exact conversation that you were talking about having with your neighbor.

cheramie-viator_2_12-05-2022_191202:

So, so

Track 1:

think about, think about pulling your bulls after 60 or 90 days and, and, uh, it was just,

cheramie-viator_2_12-05-2022_191202:

a shout out to, to Dr. Jason Clear at Beef Cattle Short Course, and, and they have between 1500 and 2000 people each year at a and m. It's the first week in August, usually, and I give Jason a lot of grief about, Hey, Jason, let's be more progressive the agenda. he's made a lot of changes and

Track 1:

Good.

cheramie-viator_2_12-05-2022_191202:

lot of genomic components, et cetera, et cetera. But there's always that component very basic and ranch management and accounting and those kind of things, people flock to'em. And Ts c a does the same thing down here, smaller producers that just need an opportunity to learn. So it's there as an educational opportu.

Track 1:

Yeah. And on the flip side of that, those big ranches, that's one thing that I've always respected about them, whether I agree with the way they breed cattle or the way they market cattle, or the way they hire labor, or whatever the case may be. Um, those folks, regardless of if they made their first million or billion in the beef industry or not, They have a pretty sharp pencil and they expect that, that business to be exactly that. And

cheramie-viator_2_12-05-2022_191202:

know.

Track 1:

yeah, they'll, they'll lose money for a little while, but not for very long before they start making significant changes.

cheramie-viator_2_12-05-2022_191202:

One of the biggest things that my takeaway in those large ranches is wasn't that it was Bessie or Petunia or Pearl as your cows. It was

Track 1:

yeah.

cheramie-viator_2_12-05-2022_191202:

It was W 9 44 or 5, 5 35 W three, et cetera, and those were your employees. And this is something that Minnie Lou Bradley really hammered into me in my early tenure with her and with Bill Bradley as well. But your cows are your employees, and if you run a business, would you allow an employee to not show up or to be subpar in their job? and they answer and, and I ask this question a lot of times to business producers that, or businessmen that I work with in a consulting or just helping, you know, would you allow employees to not do their job? And the answer is always, well, heck no. Well then why do you have that cow still there that is on an 18 month cabin interval? She needs to go. And that kind of discipline, I think for me, I'm gonna hold to it whether I. cows or 10 cows, or 50 cows or 500 cows. It is fertility and utter and feet and, and those basics gonna maintain

Track 1:

Amen to that. uh, I think I heard this quote attributed to Mr. Bob Funk at Express Ranches. His line always has been hire slow, and fire fast. and he was of course talking about personnel probably at Express temp services or wherever the case may be. But I think the same thing goes as, as the Bradleys talked about. Yeah. If your cows or your employees, which they should be, don't wait around to fire'em when they don't get bred. Don't wait around to fire'em when they've got a little. Foot issue or disposition issue or whatever else, fire fast and higher, slow. And, and, uh, as you're picking those replacement heifers, make sure you know Yeah.

cheramie-viator_2_12-05-2022_191202:

It's harder to do that as a small producer. Because you are those cattle in a, on a more, one-on-one basis.

Track 1:

Yep.

cheramie-viator_2_12-05-2022_191202:

you that it is exponentially harder to, to be disciplined as I know we should be. Because

Track 1:

Yep.

cheramie-viator_2_12-05-2022_191202:

on the big operations, she's a number. She, you know, you have a, you're palpate and cows, you run, you palpate 350 cows today. You go in and buy on the calls and opens and then you have a truckload of, of, or a group of coal opens, and then you have all the bread. Boom, they're gone on, your calls are done. And so it's, that is one thing that is different when you talk about scale of operation.

Track 1:

Yeah, and I think that those numbers and looking at things as, as an. As a number, as an employee, um, it's, for me anyway, there's no other way to make those selection decisions that you have to make if you do it any other way. I mean, I, my son Lyle gets pretty excited as, as we go to, Calling an open female that was the number$1 C cow in the herd. And I don't even look at it. I can't, um, she goes to town if she's open and, and no questions asked, no excuses made. And I mean, it's just driving this kid nuts. But if I looked at it, I would make. Wrong decisions. I would go and give her one more chance, or I would try to make some kind of excuse because of what she supposedly is genetically capable of when she didn't do the job that everybody else did. And she's gonna have an opportunity down the road somewhere else that has a Big Mac or whatever. Uh, but yeah, it's gotta be.

cheramie-viator_2_12-05-2022_191202:

If you study long, long tenured ranches, whether it be registered or commercial, one of the commonalities of those long tenured operations discipline.

Track 1:

Yep.

cheramie-viator_2_12-05-2022_191202:

you sit back and you look at those cattle operations, have been there, and I'm gonna bring this around to sustainability for just a second. It is, you know, sustainability's a mantra that a lot of folks talk about, et cetera. But we actually have some sustainability concepts we have in the beef industry, all of our lives, and it's things like, you know, call the open cows. Match your cal, your environment, all of those kind of things. But when you look at those really long tenured operations that are sustainable, it's discipline.

Track 1:

Yeah, I couldn't agree more, and I had to write that one down because I've heard more of these sustainability discussions and debates than I would care to even admit and, and. Those types of discussions from a producer standpoint always come into that. But hearing someone put it like you did that the discipline of long term sustainable ranches is what makes them exactly that... sustainable. And that discipline is, like you said, in in selection and calling that discipline is in cattle selection and genetic selection that discipline is in, um, using your resources in a very effective, efficient manner and stewarding those resources. Because if you're not disciplined, you don't do those things. You just burn through the hay, you burn through the top soil, you do whatever because. You're not worried about the next generation. Uh, but yeah, that, that's discipline goes hand in hand with it. Yeah.

cheramie-viator_2_12-05-2022_191202:

you're disciplined and match your cows' Energy requirements to your production system, gonna, your cows are gonna breed up better. You're gonna, you know, the whole thing is hand and glove you're disciplined about making those decisions, when you're in sync with nature or in sync with being disciplined and your eye on being sustain. all comes together and there's a whole lot more there that we actually do the beef business that we don't realize or don't verbalize it maybe in ways that we could or should be doing we've done it for a long time.

Track 1:

That brings us back full circle to our first topic, and that was how do we explain and tell the story to a group of neighbors in suburban and urban cities across this nation. How do we verbalize what it is we've been doing? How do we put that into a context that they get? Um, and I think, you know, words like discipline and sustainability and legacies and, and efficiency and matching energy needs to the environment and working with Mother Nature, all these things, I think they resonate, they make sense to these folks much better than EPDs and adjusted 2 0 5 day weights. Processing cattle and implanting cattle and all these things that quite often we probably get into the weeds before we even realize, uh, with, with those types of convers.

cheramie-viator_2_12-05-2022_191202:

90% of the consumers that are concerned about sustainability animal welfare, all of those issues that are are hot topics, they just wanna know. Hey, are you doing the right thing? Are you taking

Track 1:

Yep.

cheramie-viator_2_12-05-2022_191202:

the land? Are you taking care of the critters? And we, because that's, as we talked about earlier, generational turn, those are things that are important to us. Those are things that we're passionate about. then just like you said, it's being willing to have that conversation about those things because that's all they, those consumers wanna know when it comes down. Are you doing the right thing by the land? Are you doing the right thing by the critters? And generally we are.

Track 1:

Yeah, without a doubt. Um, and, and granted, there's gonna be, Bad apples in every bunch, I suppose. But, um, I don't care if somebody has 20 cows or 20,000 cows. the bulk of us are doing what's right for the land, and as you said, for the critters. And, uh, quite often as we've learned from some of these gap certified programs, as we've learned from some of these beef checkoff funded, uh, surveys with consumers, What they want to know is, do we.

cheramie-viator_2_12-05-2022_191202:

Absolutely.

Track 1:

about the resources and the environment? Do we care about the cattle? And um, is this more than strictly a profit driven business? It's gotta be part of it. financial piece of sustainability has to be there, or we don't survive to go to the next generation. But it's so much more than that, and that's why we do it. That's why instead of having that lake house and and boat, that's why you. Several dozen cows or several hundred cows and, and, that connection to your ancestors and the land and the western way of life, that's, that's why you do it, cuz you.

cheramie-viator_2_12-05-2022_191202:

Absolutely. And you know, Matt, just kind of bring things to a close here of, I think one of the things that for me, I had to learn. To be willing to have the hard discussions or be willing to have any discussion with the person who is ultimately my customer, and that's a consumer. living closer to a big metropolitan area has really driven that home for me. Um, I've kind of found purpose in trying to have those conversations my customers. Your customers, our customers, and we as an industry, Are gonna have to become more and more willing to do that because like I said early on, if we don't have those discussions with those folks, somebody else is gonna have that discussion and we may not like their side of the conversation. So we have to not bury our head in the sand and think it's. You know that we don't have to have those conversations. I think it's imperative that we have those conversations. Whether we're a kid in high, in high school, we're somebody that's a rancher that's 75 years old, you gotta be willing to talk about it with folks who are not involved in day to day agriculture production.

Track 1:

Yep. I couldn't agree more. And it's gonna take all of us, it's gonna take the high school kids, it's gonna take the 70 year olds and, and, uh, we all have a different group of folks that. With whom we deal, whether it be through family or church, or connections outside of rural America. And some of us have got more than others, frankly. Um, but, but that is one good thing. And I think that you mentioned from the outset some of the misinformation on the internet is, is. One of the sharpest edges that we have to address. Um, but it also can be a benefit. We can use it, uh, in the right way to, to tell the story. And I think more and more people, um, are doing that every day. And, and I know. the younger you are, the easier it is to do that within our industry. But, uh, but yeah, I, I think what you're doing there is, um, is huge and, and the benefits that you've had from seeing and learning from so many leaders in our industry in all areas, all breeds, all sizes, all regions, really the country, um, is a huge benefit for you and, and we just appreciate what it is you're doing and still sharing with all of us so we can continue.

cheramie-viator_2_12-05-2022_191202:

Well, it's been fun to visit with you and you know, I have, um, kind of. guess you call it a slogan or a tagline or something, um, that I use on everything, and it's just called Building Period, better Period Beef. what that stands for, it is, um, building tomorrow's leaders better cattle and beef for all.

Track 1:

Well, I can't close it out any better than Thatcher. I like it a lot. And, um, you just wrote your own title on the last few seconds of the podcast and there's, there's, uh, no more fitting conclusions. So thank you so much for being with us, uh, today. And, uh, we'll continue to keep up building better beef.

cheramie-viator_2_12-05-2022_191202:

Sounds great. Take care. Appreciate it. Keep up on your end. Awesome job on the podcast of what you're doing, Matt.

Track 1:

All right. Appreciate it a bunch.

Matt:

Thanks for joining us for practically ranching, brought to you by Dalebanks Angus. If you enjoyed the podcast, heck even if you didn't... help us improve by leaving a comment with your review wherever you heard us. And if you want to listen again, click subscribe and catch us next week. God bless, and we look forward to visiting again soon.