# 58 - Kevin Ochsner, Living to Serve

Kevin Ochsner was born and raised on an irrigated farm and registered cattle operation in Fort Collins, Colo. He attended Colorado State University and graduated with a bachelor’s degree in agribusiness. During his undergraduate studies, Kevin was a member of the CSU livestock judging team earning high individual honors at the National Intercollegiate Livestock Judging Contest and was actively involved in FFA, serving as a National FFA Officer in 1987-88. In 1997, Kevin earned his master’s in management from the Krannert School of Business at Purdue University.

Kevin spent more than two decades working for the Indianapolis-based consulting firm Agri Business Group before founding his own consulting practice, Agcellerate, LLC. Over the past 24 years, he has had the privilege of providing strategic planning, marketing consulting, sales/management training and keynote speaking services to some of the country’s largest animal health, crop protection, seed, feed and farm machinery companies.

Today, Kevin, his wife Julie and their three children, Caitlyn, Ashlyn and Collin, make their home in the small agricultural community of Kersey, Colo., 60 miles northeast of Denver. In addition to his consulting and TV hosting responsibilities, Kevin manages his family operation consisting of 130 head of registered Limousin and Lim-Flex cows together with irrigated corn, alfalfa and grass hay along the South Platte River. In addition to marketing bulls to commercial cow-calf operations, Kevin’s family also operates Ochsner Tenderlean Beef, a small branded beef company that markets beef directly to consumers along the Front Range of Colorado. 

Transcript

Microphone (Yeti Stereo Microphone): 0:05

Thanks for joining us for episode 58 of practically ranching. I'm your host, Matt Perrier. As always the podcast is sponsored by Dale banks, Angus, you re Kansas your home for practical, profitable genetics. Some might say that there isn't much practicality in discussions about industry involvement and civic duty and association relevance. So this might be another one of those episodes that leaves you with a few more questions than answers. But as a lifelong-- probably generational-- inquiring mind myself. This was a really fun discussion for me with a friend of mine who is no stranger to servant leadership, consultation and industry involvement. I first met Kevin Ochsner about 20 years ago when he led a strategic planning session for the American Angus association while I was on the staff there. And since then Kevin has become recognized as a bit of a star as the host of cattleman to cattleman on RFD TV. He continues to consult with ag entities like associations and other businesses, plus he and his family owned and operate a seedstock cowherd. And while we may not give that many answers in today's episode, this may be one of those food for thought discussions that we as leaders in agriculture-- maybe society in general-- really need to hear. You know, I've witnessed a significant change over my years of how folks view membership in organizations, whether it's our industry trade groups or civic organizations or churches. People today are not usually as involved with these groups as they were decades ago. And maybe this is just a trend and part of life's natural progression. Maybe it's the fault of our nonprofit organizations that aren't nimble or willing enough to change their model and the services that they offer. Or maybe it's a bit of both, which means that each of us probably need to look at this type of an issue from both perspectives and then figure out where the best path forward lies. You know, the thing I like about consultants, like Kevin, is that they are really good at making me think about what could be, not just about what is. And even if these mind wanderings don't elicit true change, I think they're a healthy exercise for all of us, whether it's in our own family farms and ranches, Uh, industry trade group boards that we may sit on civic organizations. We have to be at least willing to consider how we would do business if we didn't have the paradigm of our past to cloud our judgment. So enjoy this conversation. Thanks for tuning in. God bless you all. And here's Kevin Oschner.

matt_3_05-29-2024_141216: 3:16

How are things in Eastern Colorado? Assuming that's where you are today.

kevin-ochsner_3_05-29-2024_131217: 3:21

That is where I am today, and they're better today than they were yesterday, at least for some of us. We got a little rain last night, and unfortunately with all the challenging weather across the country, some folks just a little further north of us got totally hailed out. And so we're pleased that it was wet, but not too hard on our place, but feeling for some neighbors with a lot of high value vegetable crops that got destroyed last night.

matt_3_05-29-2024_141216: 3:50

Yeah, it's been, been one of those Springs. It seems like feast or famine, which, which can be the case all the time, but it seems like even more so this year. So I am quite certain that probably everybody who is listening to this, Thinks they know what you do because they've probably heard of you. If not worked with you in a variety of roles and a very, you know, through the decades, tell me first, what all you're up to today for those of us that may just see you on TV or may just see you in a boardroom or may just read something of what you've done, what you're up to today. And then we may go into the past and what brought you to here

kevin-ochsner_3_05-29-2024_131217: 4:32

Oh, let's not go into the past, Matt. That could be dangerous.

matt_3_05-29-2024_141216: 4:34

for both of us, for both of us.

kevin-ochsner_3_05-29-2024_131217: 4:37

Uh, no. I appreciate the opportunity to be with you today, Matt, and value our friendship over many of those decades that you just mentioned. Um, no, to to summarize, at the end of the day, a lot of people in the beef cattle business believe that my full time job is host of Cattleman to Cattleman. and Uh, while, I thoroughly enjoy that opportunity, uh, that I've had since I think 2008 or 9,. Uh, that is really a very small portion of my daily and weekly life, so to speak. For 33 years now, I've been in the agribusiness consulting industry. I spent about 23 of those years. Uh, with, uh, Indianapolis based agribusiness group and, uh, really cut my teeth in agribusiness consulting, through that organization, um, started my own business called Accelerate, uh, here in Colorado and continue to do the same sort of things. And I guess, uh, from a consulting standpoint, Matt, you and I've worked together on a couple of occasions. Really that business is comprised of three key elements. I spend probably about 80 or so percent of my time in strategic and marketing consulting. And that is a process of helping anybody from, you know, breed associations to multinational companies develop and implement strategic plans or, or marketing plans for their organizations. probably, uh, another 10 percent or so of my business is in keynote speaking. I do a lot of, keynote speaking at national sales meetings and conventions and conferences. And, and the remaining about 10 percent is in sales and marketing training. And so, um, Uh, the vast majority of my weekly life is spent, uh, on the road, uh, working with, uh, all sorts of clients in and around agribusiness from crop input companies to, uh, animal health companies to, as I said, associations and, and, uh, organizations. And then in addition to that, uh, consulting business and the cattleman to cattleman hosting job. We also have our own cattle operation. Uh, we run about 175 head of registered limousine and limflex cows here in eastern Colorado and, had our first production sale this spring with the registered seed stock. My wife handles a direct consumer beef business where we sell, the cattle that don't make breeding stock as halves, quarters, and whole beef to, uh, to Consumers up and downColorado's Front Range. So that in a nutshell or a rather large nutshell is kind of what keeps me busy.

matt_3_05-29-2024_141216: 6:56

So of those three fairly time consuming, uh, jobs, probably all could be considered full time, which one is the day job? And which are the other, which are the side hustles? Or is there such a thing?

kevin-ochsner_3_05-29-2024_131217: 7:09

You know, it's, it's transitioned a little bit and, and by, uh, by design, frankly, um, the, the reality is, uh, when I grew up, I tell people my career planning was pretty simple because, uh, when I graduated from college, there wasn't a home farm to come home to. Well, I'd grown up on an irrigated farm and cattle operation. Uh, we were some of the statistics of the 1980s. And so that sent me down a different career path like a lot of us in the 1980s and 90s. Yeah. That said, we got to go make some money somewhere else. If we're going to get involved in production agriculture. so I took a job in consulting. My wife had a job in animal health for a time, and, uh, we tried to pocket some money and then she stayed home to raise our three children while I tried to hustle, making some money to try to buy some land, put some cows together. Now that we have all of our kids graduated.From high school and probably a year away from the last one graduated from college, I have been trying to consciously make the transition back into more production business. now having said that we, we hired a herdsman and so he can keep the wheels on the bus while I'm gone. And, and I don't anticipate shutting down anytime soon in my consulting business. Um, I would, I would like to think that over the next seven, eight years, I can spend just a few more, few more nights in my own bed and a few less, seats on airplanes and, um, do that more in a part time basis than I have the last 30 some years.

matt_3_05-29-2024_141216: 8:28

prior to that point, when you came out of school and, though, wanted to get into production and agriculture, like so many folks that do, Lived through the eighties and we're making that transition shortly after took a town job of some kind, even though you stayed very connected to AG. Prior to that, you know, your FFA leadership and things like that. What, what do you think made it possible for you to do all these careers that you're talking about?

kevin-ochsner_3_05-29-2024_131217: 8:54

Without question, Matt, it was my, um, my FFA and, um, to maybe a lesser extent 4 H experience. And I say that because I I think of two very, very critical formative experiences I had, and one was in livestock judging, uh, starting as a 4 H member. And I truly believe that that experience, helped me develop some decision making skills and for some critical thinking skills and, um, began my public speaking skills. And then I would certainly, uh, you know, credit the National FFA organization and my involvement over time in FFA for, for doing two things. Number one, not only developing those interpersonal communication and, and, uh, decision making and hopefully some leadership skills, but, but also, uh, introducing me to, folks that really, uh, you know, I have continued to work with. Work with and be mentored by throughout my entire life. The very first job I got with the agribusiness consulting company in Indianapolis, uh, was from a man who himself was national FFA secretary, same office I held about 10 or 12 years before me. And I had gotten that job through an internship program, um, through FFA. And so, uh, so those two organizations, uh, played a pivotal role in, um, in what I do for a living and I think who I am today.

matt_3_05-29-2024_141216: 10:16

Well, they're undoubtedly great leadership organizations. And I think most people that are listening today, either we're members of either or both, have kids who are members. In fact, yesterday I sent our second and third children, Lyle, who's a senior and Hannah, who's a sophomore to the Kansas FFA, And so they were competing today and extemporaneous speaking. And I haven't heard yet how they got along, but, it is a great proving ground and, and that's, I guess, one reason I've got you on here, not just to talk about 4-H and FFA, but sometimes I think we in especially production ag overlook what is quite possibly the greatest fringe benefit that we have of this job. We look at cash flows and we look at financial statements at the end of the year and our banker asks us some hard questions and we look at the asset investment, everything, the return on those assets. And scratch your head and say, why on earth have we been doing this for four and five and six and seven generations in our family?

kevin-ochsner_3_05-29-2024_131217: 11:25

mhm.

matt_3_05-29-2024_141216: 11:26

Quite often, I think if we're honest with ourselves, it's because of the opportunities, not that you have to own land to have kids go through an FFA or 4 H program, but the community and the sense of business sense and work ethic and everything else, all those intangibles that A farm and ranch bring to the table are invaluable. We cannot monetize them. Well, we can't actually put a value on them on a financial statement. But when we or our kids or whomever else, just like yourself, when you said, Hey, the family farm isn't there for me to come back to anymore, or at least not in a state that I can make a living. But what I learned from the family farm can go any place. We're in a time in society that. I keep hearing.... In fact, I just not 45 minutes ago, coming back down the road from picking up cover crop seed was listening to a podcast and they were talking about the inability to recruit volunteer firemen anymore.

kevin-ochsner_3_05-29-2024_131217: 12:32

Wow.

matt_3_05-29-2024_141216: 12:33

And I've heard similar discussions, whether it be online or on podcasts talking about the fact that nobody wants to volunteer anymore. And we're having a hard time finding volunteers for everything from a volunteer fire department to folks to run for office. What, what can we in agriculture and what can. 4 H, FFA, whatever the case may be do to stem the tide. Or do we look at it from a, from a capitalistic standpoint and say, you know what, these kids are going to be so highly marketable. Why would we want to change it? Are we doomed in terms of service is as a friend of mine, Gordon Hibbard has said before, wrote an essay years ago, is loyalty dead?

kevin-ochsner_3_05-29-2024_131217: 13:15

No, I think, I think you asked some really, really pertinent questions and, and I think, um, you know, those extend to, um, to lots of different organizations, right? Um, you're both, you and I are both involved in cattle industry organizations as well, and maybe Farm Bureau or, or some folks, farmers Union or, or what have you. And, and I, uh. I will be speaking to the Illinois Farm Bureau, uh, this summer, actually one of my keynotes this summer. And, um, I'm certain based on our conversation, one of the things we're going to talk about is how do you get people involved and engaged, right? Uh, because we are from a generation, I would argue that our parents and grandparents had more of a, I don't know if it was a selfless sense of service, if it was a, maybe a feeling of a duty to serve, uh, maybe a belief that, fundamentally, uh, they, they, you know, we all stand on the shoulders of others, right? the age old concept of, uh, That, uh, you know, when you see a turtle on a, on a post, only one way he got there. And that was somebody put him there. And that's, I think what a lot of us could say you and I included is that, um, you know, somebody lifted this up and put us on a post. And, and at some point in time, we really do owe it to the next generation to do the same thing. I think the difference, Matt, is that. In, in a generation prior to this, people were involved not only to serve, but that was their networking opportunity, right?

matt_3_05-29-2024_141216: 14:44

Yeah, I

kevin-ochsner_3_05-29-2024_131217: 14:45

going to the local, you know, County Farm Bureau meeting that night or the County Cattlemen's Association meeting or sitting on the FFA Advisory Board, that was an opportunity to, to see their friends, their neighbors, their, uh, associates to, to learn what they were doing, uh, to engage in conversations and anymore because of these cell phones and texts and, uh, Facebook and social media. We don't, quote unquote, need those organizations, um, to really fill that need in us, although I, I think it's very, very different you and I sitting down together versus me texting you or, or reading a Facebook message that I got from Matt, right? So I do think that's one of the fundamental issues that's maybe stopping it, but I think at the heart, it's also just this very independent, take care of myself. You know, pack our lives so full that there's no margin for anything. And consequently, um, yeah, if it doesn't revolve around our job or our kids, athletic events or, uh, church activity, uh, you know, it, it doesn't get done. And I'm, I'm fearful of, of what the world looks like in that day and age. Cause you and I both know that agriculture, we, we tend to be a. Industry that kind of helps one another and comes to each other's aid. And I hope we never lose that.

matt_3_05-29-2024_141216: 16:02

I think other non ag Entities and other, other non ag areas and regions probably lost it before we did. And we just didn't recognize it, but you hit the nail on the head. I mean, even just one generation above me, my mom and dad, it's still. They're of retirement age, significantly past by most people's standards, but they're still going and blowing. But one of the biggest things that is their social outlet is that monthly meeting for the six different organizations that they're still involved with and quite often leading. You go to my generation and especially folks that are 10 to 20 years younger than me. And that is not a social networking. That isn't even an opportunity to go get a free meal like it is for mom and dad. Um, they, they don't look forward to the soil conservation dinner. They don't look forward to, as you said, the County Cattlemen's Association banquet or the NCBA or KLA annual meeting or whatever the case may be. Consequently, when you take the Social value, the networking value out of that equation. They see, okay, do I write this check for 150 or 250 or 500 for this organization or not? Well, if I say, Hey, you know, it gets me an opportunity to go see some friends that only see once a year. You write the check, not to mention that you've got somebody lobbying for you in the state capital or in D. C. or you've got legal advice or whatever the case may be. That intangible doesn't have as much value as the social aspect. And when we don't use that as a social aspect, some of these organizations, let's, Be honest. They're struggling for membership. I mean, there's fewer of us to start with. And then those of us who are still working and living on the land, aren't joiners. So what do we lose if we lose these organizations and this, this industry voice?

kevin-ochsner_3_05-29-2024_131217: 18:07

I think we lose a lot, right? I mean, the, the, the reality is, um, and, and I feel like I'm a little bit in ground central of, um, what, what we see happening, right? I mean, there is a ballot initiative as we speak, Matt, in Denver, Colorado to, uh, rid Denver of any packing houses, right? Now, that's not as big a deal today as it once was. I think there's a one sheep packing, uh, lamb packing plant down there that it would be very consequential to that. Uh, but, uh, you know, several years ago, we had several propositions out here, uh, that would have literally, if they would have gone through, would have, uh, made it illegal to AI cows, to preg check cows, to fertility test bulls. Um, and this is Colorado. This is not Connecticut. This is not even the left coast, California. This is Colorado. Okay. Uh, we we had a governor who decided to declare meat out day, you know, the, the year. And, um, and that's a great example that. Uh, Colorado Cattlemen's Association took a real leadership role in that. and, uh, you know, really, really got in the middle of that and said, we're going to have meat in day,

matt_3_05-29-2024_141216: 19:10

Yeah, that's great. I loved it.

kevin-ochsner_3_05-29-2024_131217: 19:12

interestingly enough now, what has it been three or four years later? this spring we had some of the biggest median events. Sterling had a big event, I know. I believe Brush had another big event. There were events happening all across Colorado that I would tell you were stimulated by that organization. And the members of that organization saying, you know what, we're not going to stand for this. Uh, we're going to stand up as a, as a, uh, as an industry segment and let people know in Colorado. That meat is actually good for you, and that we will not be having and celebrating a meat eating day. Um, and so that's a great example, Matt, of, you know, I think something that would have been very difficult for two or three people to have done. But in an organization, we were able to kind of, you know, take a stand. Um, and I think, really benefit the, the entire industry in terms of the, the, uh, publicity that we'd receive from that. So, so, so we lose that we lose the political clout. We, I mean, there's no way that you and I are going to spend, you know, all of our days in Denver, Colorado or, or, or Washington DC, addressing, you know, issues like we're dealing with out here with, with the wolves, you know, in, in Colorado. Um, and so we have a lot to lose, Matt, if we lose those organizations. And I think, at some point in time, we have to recognize it goes back to your profit loss and balance sheets comment that, um, the, the end of the day, talk to the talk to hog producers in California. Uh, now, you know, if there's any left

matt_3_05-29-2024_141216: 20:39

there are any,

kevin-ochsner_3_05-29-2024_131217: 20:40

Yeah. If there are any, left and, and ask the question, I mean, so what is that worth to have an organization trying to represent those interests? Right. So that we don't find ourselves in an uncompetitive position as, as they have.

matt_3_05-29-2024_141216: 20:54

So if Put your Agcelerate cap on

kevin-ochsner_3_05-29-2024_131217: 20:58

Yeah. Right.

matt_3_05-29-2024_141216: 21:00

free advice here. If you're sitting in a room with a bunch of board members for XYZ farm or ranch organization, what if I turn the focus back on them? What do these ag organizations need to do to convince? I mean, because we have beaten the, It's the right thing to do. And if we lose this voice in Denver, Topeka, Columbia, wherever the case may be, we lose our industry," and that ain't working. Um, what, what do right? What, what do we need to offer as, and do we have to just, is the model broken? Do we have to change the way we look at these organizations and, and start a new? And if so, how?

kevin-ochsner_3_05-29-2024_131217: 21:46

Yeah, I think there's a couple of things. Um, you know, I think organizations have to have to pause a minute and look at their fundamental value proposition, right? And say, What is it that we're, what is it, and how is it that we're delivering value to our members? And then, I think be willing and able to own up to the fact that there may be some of these organizations that, um, maybe they think producer education has been a great value that they deliver, but in reality, they are 2nd or 3rd or 4th best at that. You know what I mean? I mean, there are some times and you and I both been to some meetings before, I'm sure. Where we're saying, you know, I would have gone two or three other places and, and heard this same message about five years before now. And this organization is finally getting around because they needed somebody on the agenda to come do a presentation for one night and they're doing it. And, and so you don't, you don't think of that organization being an organization that is helping you on the cutting edge. Right. And so I think that's one thing that you're going to have to do. Um, is, is, is think about your value proposition. I think a second thing, and I have shared this, I won't tell you with what organization, but local organization that wanted me to sit on the board. And I said, guys, you're going to have changed your meeting structure. And this goes back to my, this goes back to some FFA training,

matt_3_05-29-2024_141216: 23:05

Mm

kevin-ochsner_3_05-29-2024_131217: 23:05

in the sense that, some of these organizations have a wonderful way of cramming 30 minutes of business into a two hour meeting. You know what I mean?

matt_3_05-29-2024_141216: 23:15

Or two day,

kevin-ochsner_3_05-29-2024_131217: 23:17

And. what I told him, I said, you know, I, I appreciate people wanting to get together and visit, but, but there are times and again, given my schedule and a lot of times my travel schedule, it's such a thing that to be involved on that board, I have to say, all right. Um, I, you know, if I travel two or three nights a week and I'm going to add another night, a month to being away from home, is that really valuable, you know, and am I willing to do that? And I guarantee you, I'm not willing to do that if I feel like my time's been wasted, right? And so come in, let's have an agenda, let's get through the business meeting. And for those people who have time that evening to sit around and visit, fantastic. And for the rest of us, we did our business. We know what we are marching orders for the next month. Now let's proceed forward. I sit on another board, uh, Matt, that, um, several years ago, this was in advance of COVID and, um, you know, the organization was, was kind of looking at its books and saying, gosh, you know, this is a national organization that brings board members together. And I said, you know, one thing we could consider is having a zoom call for one of our three board meetings, you know, during the year, right? Oh, no, that would not work. I mean, they were totally opposed to that. Well, guess what? A year later, midst of COVID, everybody figured out how to do zoom. And now I sit on that same board and, um, and, one of the three meetings we have each year is, is via zoom. And we've been able to crunch instead of two days and, you know, Couple of days travel. We've been able to crunch that into, you know, kind of a, an extended day meeting. It's our shortest meeting of the year, but again, time is of the essence. So, so I think taking a look at the value proposition, I think looking at, you know, how do we do business and can we, um, you know, a lot of these people and you're a great example, I mean, you run a big outfit. And, uh, and I think that was one of the other comments I was going to make, Matt. I don't know if you agree with this or not, but I do think, I don't know if it's because of you and my expectation or our generation's expectation about how much money we want to make and what we want, how we want to live. But I tend to think that, um, we genuinely are busier trying to chase more things than maybe a generation or two ago. And, And, we just, We just don't have that margin. And so consequently, most of the really good people, folks want to get involved in the organization on boards. they have a lot of demands on their time and I think being efficient, um, and, and focused and targeted, uh, getting real clear... and this is what I do with some organizations about what are the three things you want to move forward this year? What are some specific goals? Get real crystal clear. Don't try to be all things to all people. Deliver upon a very prescribed value proposition and do it well.,

matt_3_05-29-2024_141216: 26:00

I think that's well said. And we, we do have mission creep or whatever we want to call. Sometimes these organizations see a shiny thing and somebody else is doing it. And we always want to add something else, but not say, okay, this thing that we have been doing for 47 years. Is not that important to anyone and has lost its relevance and let's move on. And that's, those are tough. Let me, I want to go back to something you were talking about the generation before and our generation today, not having that time. I don't know if it's just us trying to make more money and do more things. I look at my kids and our family and all of the extra activities that they have outside of FFA, you know, it used to be if you were a three sport letterman, played football in the fall, you played basketball or something, wrestled in the winter, and you ran track or golfed or played baseball in the spring, and then in the summer you may go in and lift weights. For 45 minutes every morning. Now you have to be on six different traveling teams and that's not to mention all the additional, um, workouts and things like that. It's I think that our kids and we, as parents, cause we're the ones that get to make these decisions. But I think families have so much more going on. I mean, I'd never seen a slant load living quarters trailer for horses, and I'd sure never seen one for show cattle. And today that's. I mean, I'm the oddball that pulls in with a stock trailer to one of these shows or, you know, stock events.

kevin-ochsner_3_05-29-2024_131217: 27:37

That's right.

matt_3_05-29-2024_141216: 27:38

we have spent a lot more time and money on our kids. And I think that we've replaced a little bit of our, quote unquote, service to the industry, and our social outlet going to the, you know, local or state or national ag convention with going to six or eight or 28 stock shows every weekend.

kevin-ochsner_3_05-29-2024_131217: 28:00

Couldn't agree more with you, right, Matt? And I think that, we probably have to do some self reflection on that as well, because I think it's a little bit of a self fulfilling prophecy. What, what kind of kids do we create when, when the world has been centered around them? Right. And it's constantly, uh, you know, I mean, our, our church had started a little church plant on Sunday evenings for the very reason that there's a lot of people that are on club volleyball or club sports team that couldn't come to church on Sunday morning if they wanted to, because their kids are at some two day tournament as an example. Right. And, um, you know, I, I, I don't think it was the kids that came up with that. I think it

matt_3_05-29-2024_141216: 28:40

you don't, huh?

kevin-ochsner_3_05-29-2024_131217: 28:41

I think it was the adults that thought that would be a great idea and a wonderful way to get my kid a leg up so they could get this full ride scholarship and, uh, and, and be a, um, you know, a football superstar sometime. Right. Uh, and I'm not fussing with sports, but I'm saying that when the world revolves around kids and that, I do think that that's a lot of what's happened. Then those kids grow up and they say the world revolves around me and, and no one else. Right. And so the, the concept of, um, Leadership is about service and the Albert Schweitzer quote years ago that you always find happiness if you seek and find how to serve that. That kind of concept I think is dead because we have kind of demonstrated our kids that they are to be served Not to serve And so I think I think there is probably more than we have time to get through in this this conversation and Gosh, I mean we are probably somewhat guilty of that ourselves. Although I I do think we try to create some boundaries For ourselves and our kids and, and said, you know, you're going to have pick and choose and we've got some other responsibilities and, and, um, no, we're not, we're not going to be able to go to three G internationals this summer. Right.

matt_3_05-29-2024_141216: 29:54

And, And when you take that stand as a parent in that kid's eyes, and of course, That's what parents have to do sometimes. But in that kid's eyes, you are the meanest parent around because my friend, little Johnny or little Susie is going to three or five junior nationals. And so let's look 20 years down the road and now we have an industry populated with Club Volleyball, Basketball and Baseball Kids. Past and stock show kids. What are they going to be like? Are they going to be, are they going to have this civic responsibility come full circle and realize what their grandparents had? And they don't, I mean, we saw a lot of these organizations. We, you and I talked about this once before. I mean, I didn't look up all of them, but 4 H was created in about 1902, the Rotary Club somewhere in 1905, Kiwanis in 1915, the Lions Club in 1917, you know, fast forward, FFA was mid and late 1920s. I mean, all these organizations that had the sign on the highway just outside of town saying they met at such and such cafe on the second Thursday of every month.

kevin-ochsner_3_05-29-2024_131217: 31:11

Right.

matt_3_05-29-2024_141216: 31:12

They're gone. They're gone. And we look around at some of our farming organizations and our cattlemen's organizations, and either because they've splintered over one or two policy issues or whatever else, some of them are at risk of being gone.

kevin-ochsner_3_05-29-2024_131217: 31:25

Right.

matt_3_05-29-2024_141216: 31:26

At what point do we have another early 20th century, deal where everybody comes together and says, Hey guys, we gotta, we gotta bring some of this stuff back or, or, or are we just gonna go into the selfish abyss of independence?

kevin-ochsner_3_05-29-2024_131217: 31:45

and again, I hope, I hope that we're not. And I guess here would be some hopeful, maybe optimistic looks at that. I do think there are some organizations and I can't speak as much to to sports because of my kids were not as involved in sports, but I do, and I'm very proud of organizations like FFA who continue to have a community service part of that. Right. I mean, um, my daughter is, as part of her FFA experience, started an afterschool program for, uh, Elementary school kids that would teach in elementary school kids about agriculture. And it was a really, it was one of the, she would look back at her high school career and say, that was one of the really fulfilling, activities of her high school career. And I would argue that was a service oriented. What can I do for others kind of a thing. so so I'm, I'm hopeful that, there is some of that still happening in organizations like 4 I'm not certain that, um, you know, when we get into, you know, Sports and so forth. I I'm not as familiar with what kind of, kind of community services, but I guess I would Say, is there a way that in all the fun that we're having and all the way we helped them to become better competitors, can we insert some level of, of, uh, of training, some level of, um, uh, focus and, uh, and, and put some value on, um, elements beyond just achieving your own success. Right. So that's one piece. I, I personally, I think we could get real religious real quickly. And I, I do think, uh, you know, that it's core and fundamental... either you have a belief that, um, you know, that washing somebody's feet is, uh, you know, somebody once demonstrated what, uh, what service looks like and what putting others before, um, himself looks like. And, and so there's part of

matt_3_05-29-2024_141216: 33:33

to, you're safe to talk about him here. Very, very safe. ha. ha ha ha

kevin-ochsner_3_05-29-2024_131217: 33:39

is that I do think, Matt, that there is a level of which the further society moves from the Judeo Christian belief, uh, it is easier to get very, very self centered, very selfish and focused. Right. So I think those are, those are things that are, you know, pulling against us, but I don't know what happens. And I, and I wonder at times if it doesn't require some sort of, or it won't require some kind of emergency or some sort of a disaster to pull together. But going back to our earlier conversation, I guess I'd turn the question back to you. You know, you all had some terrible, terrible fires in Kansas several years ago. And it was. Absolutely heartwarming to see the outpouring of support and to contrast that against what we've seen in places like New Orleans, you know, many years before that, the flood, that people were coming to steal things as opposed to helping people. Build fences and put things back together. And maybe that's a difference between rural and urban. I hope, I hope we are not headed down that path of hurricane Katrina and, and how people act, when there's disasters like that.

matt_3_05-29-2024_141216: 34:50

Those, those are tough conversations, especially today with all of the tertiary discussions of, yeah, rural versus urban or whatever description or whatever bucket somebody wants to put a group of people into. Um, but that's why I guess, even if we just focus on. and rural community organizations. If we're 30 years behind

kevin-ochsner_3_05-29-2024_131217: 35:18

Mm hmm.

matt_3_05-29-2024_141216: 35:20

that curve, but continue that curve, what happened, yeah, that, that trajectory. what happens if we, and I don't see this ever happening, but what happens if we get to the point where we have a fire in Southwest Kansas and everybody shrugs their shoulders and said, well, that's too bad, or like you said, worse yet comes in and gathers up what cattle are wandering. Aimlessly and goes and sells them at the next local sale barn. I mean, I, I don't ever see us changing that, but there is even in the country roads of, the Midwest, there is, I think a little less of that. as you termed it, duty to serve, than what our grandparents had. And it, it's, it, frankly it scares me. And, and I think we as, as agrarians and as production agriculture folks, I think we can be leaders in this and maybe bring our urban and suburban neighbors Back to that mindset. It's inspiring when they see it, whether it be on Facebook or whether they, whatever the case may be, they're fairly awestruck that there are still people who are willing to donate tens of thousands of dollars of feed and hay and fencing materials and everything else and deliver them. I mean, they, they just can't imagine that, but yeah, I don't know how else besides example that we lead that.

kevin-ochsner_3_05-29-2024_131217: 36:43

And I think that's what I was going to say. Part of it is the example we set. Part of it is, you know, how can we lift up and pay tribute to those people who have, you know, I know in some of the work with Cattleman to Cattleman, it's fun to hear stories of, you know, Some of the leaders that have gone through the ranks and to hear, it hasn't just been a three year process, you know, for the last 25 years, they started their cattle and cattlemen's, you know, meetings and, and to hear what they've done, and, and the kind of support that they've lent the organizations, the number of days they spent away from their own operation, uh, trying to, to lobby for and, and speak on behalf of, Uh, of our industry. And so to hear those stories, I think that's one way we can, you know, kind of model that if you will, to the next generation is to say, hold up this person, and I'm not going to call out any names, although I could, um, hold up, you know, this person to say, um, you know, in my case, my, my son's case, Colin, this is a great example of, of an industry servant and, um, you know, and, and, and look at how he has impacted and influenced the industry. And, uh, maybe that doesn't show up on his balance sheet, uh, but he is an industry icon. And, uh, he's an industry icon because he was willing to roll up his sleeves, get involved, do the hard things, um, you know, be at those late, late meetings and sacrifice some time away from his family to do just that. And so, you know, maybe there's a way that, that we can do that. And I think the other thing that I would challenge us to is, how do we get. More than just, you know, if it's you or I, or maybe it's our kids generation, they will come together if there are other.. Folks that look like them and act like them are about their same age. And so sometimes it's about the mass, you know, you, you, you have one kid that comes and he goes in... All he sees is a bunch of gray hairs and he doesn't come home or he doesn't come back to the meeting again. But gosh, if there's an event that he or she is able to see some of their peers, they can do that. The third thing that I would model that I do think would be worthwhile, and I don't know how many organizations do that. You're familiar with the Young Cattlemen's Conference in NCBA. And I'm amazed at the kind of lifelong relationships that are developed. So they've gone out, they've handpicked a group of people. They put them on this week long experience from all across the country. And I think then all of a sudden they develop a camaraderie and a network and you see those people kind of growing and developing and leading together. And so I think sometimes getting peer groups together, if we can, if we can kind of, um, plant those seeds and get those peer groups together, maybe we have a better chance of, of keeping them, you know, tied to the wagon.

matt_3_05-29-2024_141216: 39:22

I think that's a an excellent and a lot of these state cattlemen state farming groups are doing the same thing because quite frankly There's a lot more of those young stockmen and there's a lot more of those young folks in agriculture than when you and I, if you were born from the late 60s to about 1980, you didn't come home to production ag or you didn't do it immediately because either there wasn't any family farm or ranch to come back to or it was so low in profitability and opportunity that you went Yeah, I, and that was my decision in 1996."I I'm not going to bang my head against the wall like my folks have for nothing." And so there aren't very many of us that are 50 something in production ag. a bunch of 70 year olds and there's a pile of 20 to 30 or 40 somethings. And so, yeah, I think, I think that's important. If I turn the lens back on, on us, on me as a member of these organizations, you see it, and without naming organizations, heck, it happens. It's not just NCBA or Farm Bureau or it's our local parish council or church organization or whatever the case may be. One issue happens we don't get our way with. And we go, you know what? I'm not paying dues next year. You know what? I'm going to go to a different church next Sunday. I'm done. Has that always been there or are we just that much thinner skin that we can't accept the whole and the advantages of that entire organization, even though there may be one or two or three things that we don't love.

kevin-ochsner_3_05-29-2024_131217: 41:09

I think you make a great, great point, uh, and I, it's one that I'm frustrated with in agriculture because, to your point, there's so few of us in, in the first place, right? If you talk about 1.7 or 8 percent of the population in, in production agriculture, and, and then when you start, uh, you know, dissecting all the things that we could disagree with, Even within the, the cattle space is an example. Um, and then start splintering the organizations and, and nobody has any credibility then, you know? So, so it's frustrating at times that we cannot say, um,"you know, Matt, I, I disagree with you here, but I respect you as a person. And we are better together than we are separate. don't expect me to throw any money towards this particular campaign or that particular cause, but I'm, I'm going to say again, hitch the wagon and, and plugged in" because I think, um, Again, I think it was, is, uh, Franklin's quote. you know,"Either we all hang together or we'll all hang separately." Um, and that's, that's a quote that I often recall. Right. but I do think that we are in a, in a generation at a time, Matt, that, I don't know if it's our impatience, I don't know if it's our intolerance, I don't know if it is the polarization, if it's, you know, the, the news channels, I don't know what it is, uh, that we're amped up and, and, and kind of, you know, get that attitude that, boy, you really ticked me off this time and I'm, I'm gone and gone for good, right? Um, that, that happens. And I do think that there are times that, you know, We're all principled people and, and there are some boundaries that we can't cross. but I think that, um, you know, we, we have a lot of danger in, again, subdividing what is already a small industry into such small portions that we can't make any headway, right?

matt_3_05-29-2024_141216: 42:58

Yeah. And that's, that's the frustrating thing. And of all the organizations that I'm a member of. I can't think of one of them that I agree with 100 percent every policy decision, every teaching, every everything else. and not to say that we can, you know, look at it like a buffet and just pick what we want and throw out what we don't, to, you have to support as much as you can for an organization or a group or whatever the case may be. But what I hate the most is Not simply the fact that the bulk of us, and let's just say in the beef industry, aren't all members of one organization. So we send them all of our dues money and that organization can be bigger and stronger and everything else. The thing I hate the most is the fact that the folks who disagree on an issue or two or three with me don't show up to the meeting. And say why and discuss and let me hear, Hey, there are reasons that I think that this now they will turn and say, well, I was there 15 years ago. I was there in 1996 and expressed why it is. And I'm still POed. I have a hard time still accepting that one, but I do. And this is where I get sideways with some organization leadership who say, well, we just don't need everybody to be members. Yeah, that might be case, but we do need varying opinions and perspectives and outlooks and when we don't have those, we don't make as good a decisions.

kevin-ochsner_3_05-29-2024_131217: 44:37

exactly right.

matt_3_05-29-2024_141216: 44:38

we come to these, we come to some of these meetings today and they're over before they started because everybody just pretty well nods in agreement. There's nobody back there saying, Hey, have you thought about this? And sometimes you need that person back there. And yet they're no longer members and no longer, at least no longer active members. And, and I think it's dangerous. I, so, uh, thing, but I, I welcome more people into an organization, whether it be a farming or ranching or ag or whatever the case may be, not just because quote unquote, they need the dues dollars, but because they need the input regardless of how your perspective is,

kevin-ochsner_3_05-29-2024_131217: 45:19

Yeah. And I, I think that makes a great, great point. And again, it goes back to, um, you know, do you want to surround yourself by people who think just like you? right? Uh, I, I, I use a quote in some of the, um, the strategy work that I do, uh, that is simply,"none of us are as smart as all of us." And, and I truly believe that, you know, and I, as I work with boards, as an example, I encourage that. I said here, you know, we're, we're going to get into some discussions and have some conversations here. And I expect a difference of opinion. Now, I, I expect respect, right? I think you share your, your opinions in a respectful way. But I expect people to share differences of opinion and then for us to be objective enough and gosh, Matt, again, I hate to keep harkening back to FFA, but I think one of the things that really helped me with 4 H and FFA livestock judging, and then ultimately college, Was that I did learn that there are kind of two sides of the equations. There's criticisms and grants, right? And, and there's judgment calls and some judgment calls are two point cuts and some judgment calls are seven point cuts. And, you know, in those two point cuts, you need to be open enough to kind of think in a different way. And then there are eight point cuts in life that you probably have to get that one, right? You know what I mean? Um, and, and, and not give and take a lot. And, and I truly believe Matt that, that having a set of people around, uh, in a conference room around a board table or whatever, that, that have the level of objectivity to, to, to listen to, the opinions and, and the, uh, the beliefs and the, the facts in the room, and then to make a calculated decision, right. And, and then be willing to walk out of that room and say, you know what? I was on a different side of that equation. Not even say that, but literally walk out of the room and know that Matt quote unquote won the argument today and he got more votes than I did. And now as a board member, I'm going to support that because that's what our organization decided to do. And there'll be another day and another time that I'll have my quote unquote day in court. I've told a lot of people, I mean, Turn it directly to the NCBA. I don't agree with everything that NCBA does, right? But I know if I don't agree with something. I know how to possibly get it changed. And I fundamentally believe in the process. I have trust in the process of bringing an idea to a county cattlemen's organization and getting it at the state level and advancing it to the national level and a very grassroots, approach, I fundamentally believe in that process. I believe that process works. I trust that process. And if I don't like something that happens, um, then I have to ask myself, Am I, am I disgruntled or motivated enough in one way, shape or form to try to advance my idea because I know how to do it if, uh, I know the process it takes to do it if, if that's what I want to do.

matt_3_05-29-2024_141216: 48:10

I look at it the same way, but in today's, uh, Selfish instant gratification world, that process that most of our industry organizations go through. And it's, it's probably the best time tested way to get the right decision made on policy is starting at the grassroots level and letting your region and then your state, and then your big region or district carry it to the national, et cetera, et cetera. That's probably the only way to do it and truly be grassroots. But look how quickly I can get on Twitter, Facebook, whatever the case may be. Absolutely massacre the people who made that decision without maybe even being in the room to hear why it was they made that decision or what. What discussions took place before that policy was brought and discussed and then later adopted. the easy thing to do is jump on and lambast somebody on social media or comment on someone who already has. And that, that is where most people are joining in. They're not, it's not the dues that aren't being paid. It's the lack of discussion. Let's have that discussion that's happening on social media.... Let's have it three months ago in person and hear all sides. But we don't get to do it. And I don't know whose fault it is. I, I, I think, I think we all, including our industry organizations. I think we all share an, a responsibility. And I think we all have a duty to figure out how to fix it. Individuals included. Notwithstanding the organizations themselves. Um, but we have to all come together and say, you know what? This model is not sustainable. We talk a lot about sustainability in the beef industry. We never talk about the fact that the model of our multiple organizations for a few thousand or tens of thousands of producers is not sustainable. and and it's important. I don't know, I don't have the answers, but I do know that what we've been doing for the last 30 years.

kevin-ochsner_3_05-29-2024_131217: 50:26

Not working. Yeah. Yeah, it's a, it's a really, really tough question, Matt. And, and, um, you know, it's, it's interesting because, um, you know, there are, there are so, so, so many reasons why we do have to come together with one voice. There's never been more important, right? I

matt_3_05-29-2024_141216: 50:44

Oh, yeah, for sure.

kevin-ochsner_3_05-29-2024_131217: 50:45

is. Because of so much of society having such little understanding about who we are and what we do and how we approach things. And because so many decisions that we have to deal with on a daily basis, right, are made by people who are uninformed or uninvolved. I mean, it just stands to reason that we've got to find a way to collectively come together and to advance ideas forward, right? Um, I, I'm, you know, more interested in probably You know, that part of us coming together, the reality of, you know, when it comes to education, for instance, I do think we all have to own up to the fact that people get educated different ways than they once did. Right. And so the day and age of a county extension meeting to go and learn, um, you know, novel feeding technology. Those days are waning, right? And so there are some things that I do think we have to own up to and recognize that we're going to have to find different ways. I'm not saying that those organizations that have educated people can't continue, but they're probably going to have to do it differently. and that's still a valuable. You know, value proposition, so to speak, but there are other things that, that there is, it's going to require people to come to your point into a room to, to have a discussion and a debate and, and to land on the decision and not to just separate yourself from that process and go your merry way. And then to your point, jump on Facebook and, you know, rant and rave and see how many likes and shares you get on your comment. Right?

matt_3_05-29-2024_141216: 52:13

Yeah. Well, it's ironic that we have come full circle from talking about not having to be in person at board meetings, and instead having a Zoom call. As you were telling me that story, I remembered. A couple of tenures that I had on our local farm bureau, county farm bureau organization. And, um, I was of the same mindset that you were let's, let's get more efficient. Let's cut these meetings in half timewise and number wise. And when I finally went off the board, our county coordinator gave me a coffee mug. That was my favorite slogan on a coffee mug ever. I just survived another meeting that could have been an email

kevin-ochsner_3_05-29-2024_131217: 52:52

I like that.

matt_3_05-29-2024_141216: 52:53

I know I loved it. And she, she, read me just right. But. Saying that for those times when we approve the budget and we approve the expenses for the month and Those things garbage in garbage out rubber stamp. We can probably do that in a lot more efficient way those times when we have to decide on major Watershed moments in the beef industry on things like marketing or ID or whatever the case may be There is incredible value of being in the room hearing All sides of the issue, talking in the hallways, maybe coming back six months later at the next one and hashing it out again with new information. There is value in that. And yet most of these hallways and most of these organizations, meetings and boardrooms and everything else continue to be a little less full with every passing convention. And I think it's dangerous.

kevin-ochsner_3_05-29-2024_131217: 53:50

and again, you share just another quote that I share often in my presentations, which was"confronting reality is recognizing the world as it is not as you wish it to be, and having the courage to do what must be done, not what you'd like to do." And, and so I think that's the, that's the decision that we have to make as, um, as leaders and, and participants and members of these organizations is to say, there's some of this that, that, that, you know, the toothpaste is out of the tube and it's never going to come back yet. Right? And so there are some things that have changed and they will never be the way they were in in 1965 when my or 68 when my dad first became a member I think of the young farmers organization and And and thoroughly, I mean he he and mom would tell you in their 20s and 30s, That that involvement young farmers was a big part of who they were about their social network about how they were learning new processes practices about Getting to travel, taking a couple of kids that my mom and dad never been anywhere and they got to go to you know, lots of different places. That's not the case anymore, right? So those things that were valuable to them in the late 1960s, early 1970s are not valuable to you and my son and daughter, and so we have to, we do have to reinvent ourselves. Um, we do have to get, I think, crystal clear on the mission and purpose and I think more focused as opposed to more broad. So if I'm joining the organization I understand what you're about and you know what you're involved in and Get good at doing that, right? I mean,, the national rifle association it gets pretty clear about what they're what they're focused on as an example, right? And and so I think there's some, you know Logic to that and then I think You You know, again, to our conversation earlier, I think we owe it to ourselves, you know, what are you and I doing as dads now and moving into that generation where maybe our kids and, and at some point in time, grandkids will look to us with some, for some wisdom, um, how can we encourage them to say,"I understand how busy you are. And I understand how important that seems right now, but, um, but, but recognize that you owe it to yourself. You owe it to the industry that you're making a living in to give back.", And, um, if we don't have people like you at the table, stop and think about who's sitting at the table, making decisions there, um, you know, the people who run the world are the people that show up, right. And, and we want, we want the right people showing up, I guess. Matt is what I'm saying.

matt_3_05-29-2024_141216: 56:18

In that vein, you talked about reinventing ourselves. Who needs to be the re inventor? Does it need to be the individual who may or may not be a member of that organization, or does it need to be the, for lack of a better word, because I don't want to hang it on the elected board or the current staff, does it need to be the culture of that organization that has to reinvent itself. Which, it's a chicken and egg concept, but which, which has to drive that? Who has to be that creator and that energy behind a reinvention?

kevin-ochsner_3_05-29-2024_131217: 56:57

That's a really good question. That is a

matt_3_05-29-2024_141216: 57:00

can't believe I stumped the strategic planner. This is a first in 30 years, Kevin.

kevin-ochsner_3_05-29-2024_131217: 57:05

right. Not not the case at all. But yeah, that's a good question is where what what is the catalyst of that? Right, Matt? And that's a great question. Um,

matt_3_05-29-2024_141216: 57:14

And there's probably no answer, but I think it's one that we have to consider, both as people who have been, might be critical of our organization or the organization that we don't want to be members of. But I think it also has to be the question in the boardroom and in the coffee room or in the strategic session that you're helping lead with XYZ farm organization and say, you What can we do? Can, do we need to let bygones be bygones and figure out if we were inventing ourselves? If it was 19 something and we were starting this organization in 2024, what would we do? Not what have we done, what would we do today going forth?

kevin-ochsner_3_05-29-2024_131217: 57:58

Yeah, I think I do think the more you've given me time to think about it. I mean, I do think that has to be kind of an internal job. I think that does have to be at least initiated in some way, shape or form by You know, the organization itself and, and, and ideally by maybe some members that have served in leadership capacity and have a level of respect and trust. And, and that people, people recognize, gosh, here's a person who has the best interest of the organization at heart. And he or she is stepping forward with an idea saying, I love the organization. I've been involved in organizations 30 years, but I frankly don't think what's gotten us here is going to get us there. And I want to challenge our organization because I want this organization. I mean, part of my legacy is wrapped up in this organization and I want this organization to continue to thrive and prosper, uh, in the future. And so I'm going to challenge, you know, the organization that it's time to make some changes and it's, it's time to make changes in terms of either a, our scope and focus, it's time to make changes in terms of B, maybe we need to think about getting together with, a couple of these other organizations. I mean, I did a cattlemen's meeting that three counties have come together. You know what I mean? And they talked about how there was a time when there would be three different local county cattlemen's organizations. They decided to come together and meld together. They've been able to do a bigger banquet and do some things at a larger scale that made it more valuable. So who do we have to, who do we have to collaborate with, right? I, I think, uh, you know, having some questions about who do we need as members, right? Um, you know, in some cases, uh, I've seen boards that I've worked with put on, uh, non members on their board to just have some external thinking, right? I mean, what's the right banker or the right lawyer or the right whoever That needs to be on our board to kind of challenge us a little bit, um, to think different differently than we've been thinking as an example, if we're just a produce organization? So, so, I mean, I, I do think it's an internal job, so to speak, and I do think it could best be done by somebody who has, who doesn't look like they're just trying to blow up the organization, right? I mean, a young, a young, person comes in and starts blazing new trails. And sometimes the, the old guard looks at that as saying, you know, doesn't get it, not old enough. It doesn't know what we've been through, dumb ideas, and dismisses it out of hand, whereas I think, sometimes if an organization, you know, begins with a set of leaders who are, uh, deeply rooted in that organization and proactively want to change, uh, it's just trying, challenging trying to find that, that person or those people to do that, right?

matt_3_05-29-2024_141216: 1:00:30

Yeah, no doubt. And, and we're constantly in a state of change. That's the only thing constant is change. and and those, those things are hard. Change is extremely hard, especially when it's a, in my opinion, when it's a member organization, again, we can talk churches, we can talk industry groups, the Lions club, whatever the case may be. Those are sometimes, Absolutely the hardest ones to, to make change in, but yet the ones that can be negatively affected when we don't, and, and I think we've seen that,

kevin-ochsner_3_05-29-2024_131217: 1:01:00

Well, and it's, it's one of those things, Matt, that again, we, we have created a very independent organization. Culture, very self sufficient culture, um, in America today. and I do think that, maybe it is some sort of economic challenge or, you know, global conflict challenge or something like that, that brings us all together in some sort of massive big war effort. You'd like to think we don't have to go through that, right, Um, in that moment that, that causes us to come together and to see value in one another and to find a level of, whether it be comfort In, in doing something together, and to, to be able to actually feel, um, a sense of self worth that we very rarely feel when we achieve something alone, when together we come together as an organization and we look back and we said, look what we've done, you know, look what we've done. I was just with your friends in Worcester, Ohio here a week ago, certified Angus Beef folks, and I have to tell you, Matt, that I can never be with that organization and not just pause a minute and just be so awestruck at the group of folks, the American Angus Association, that ultimately founded that and saw a vision and put that organization together and, uh, and really, you know, absolutely changed the beef cattle industry, not just the Angus breed, I think, but the beef cattle industry. Would you agree?

matt_3_05-29-2024_141216: 1:02:24

Without a doubt, but it's ironic because it's exactly what you just said before. It was made not because they were, and they were, visionaries. They were desperate. You couldn't give an Angus bull away when they started talking, and that's, that's a stretch, but the Limousin cattle, and the Gelbviehs, and the Simmental, and Chianina, and Maine Anjou, and all of these continental breeds were coming in, and they were way higher performance, and they were way better. fancier and taller and you name it. And the Angus breed had to do something. And instead of sitting there saying, well, you know, we don't want those people in our

kevin-ochsner_3_05-29-2024_131217: 1:03:03

Right.

matt_3_05-29-2024_141216: 1:03:05

they said, what do we have to offer? Well, we have beef quality and we think that. USDA's grades changing are going to negatively impact consumer demand and so we're going to stay the course and we're going to find ways that prove our value. And that's, in a nutshell, that's what we've just been talking about for the last 57 minutes. I mean, it's, it's finding how you can add value to your members and if, if it's not how you were adding value to your members for the last 75 years. Maybe we have to change the value proposition.

kevin-ochsner_3_05-29-2024_131217: 1:03:39

And I think that's, that's the lesson of that, that example of itself, right? Is that in 1956, that didn't work, but

matt_3_05-29-2024_141216: 1:03:46

Yeah, no, heck no.

kevin-ochsner_3_05-29-2024_131217: 1:03:47

76, whatever it was, uh, it was an idea whose time would come based on the circumstances, but there was a group of people who collectively came together and made that happen. And that's the power of, uh, of organizations.

matt_3_05-29-2024_141216: 1:04:00

Yep. No doubt. Kevin, I just, I always enjoy your, your vision and your way of going about thinking through issues. And, um, I will, if it's okay with you, I will include your contact information and a website or two if you want. Uh, that'll let folks get in contact with you if they, if they. Want to discuss further or hire you or whatever else. But no, I appreciate, appreciate you being on here and everything you've done for the organizations with whom I've been either working for or a member of through the years. And I know, as you said, when folks have the right reasons for making progress and asking for change, their heart's in the right place, and I know yours is in all that you do. So I really, really appreciate you being on here today.

kevin-ochsner_3_05-29-2024_131217: 1:04:44

I appreciate that, Matt. And this has been a fun conversation. Again, um, you've, you've kind of teed up, uh, an issue that so many organizations face, but I think, uh, what we've demonstrated is just an issue that's hard to get our hands wrapped around to say, Oh, so how do you fix it? We know something has to be done, but, uh, I appreciate that conversation and the stimulation you've provided me today.

matt_3_05-29-2024_141216: 1:05:05

you bet you bet. We'll take care and we'll, uh, we'll talk with you down the road, Kevin.

kevin-ochsner_3_05-29-2024_131217: 1:05:09

Thank you, Matt.

Microphone (Yeti Stereo Microphone)-1: 1:05:12

​Thanks again for listening to practically ranching brought to you by Dale banks, Angus, as we've said before, if you like what we're doing here, give us a five star rating, drop a comment to us and be sure to follow us, to hear future episodes, as soon as they're out. And be sure to mark your calendars for our annual bull sale, November 23rd at the ranch Northwest of Eureka, Kansas. Thanks for listening. God bless. And we'll be back again in two weeks.