Practically Ranching

#32 - Casey Niemann, Choose Courage Over Comfort

Matt Perrier Season 2 Episode 32

Casey Niemann is founder of AgriSync, a customer-service platform for ticketing and remote support built specifically for ag businesses and equipment dealers. 

Casey, his wife Tammy, and their children reside in Des Moines, IA. Both of them served as FFA State Officers while at Kansas State University, and both have continued to provide exemplary leadership within the agribusiness segment.

Matt:

Thanks for joining us for episode 32 of practically ranching. I'm Matt Perrier. Today we get to visit with Casey Niemann, Casey and his family live in Des Moines, Iowa. And he's the founder of AgriSync, a support system that's built for ag businesses and equipment dealers We touch on his invention, but we talk more. Just about general entrepreneurship, specifically in agriculture. And the challenges and the risks that are associated with entrepreneurship. Uh, we talk about Casey's time as a state officer in the Kansas FFA. And, the many folks who taught Casey to, to think critically, to always continue to learn and define practical solutions for challenges within ag. And of course we talk about technology. It's the segment where Casey has spent the bulk of his career. And it's an area that he believes will give you S ag operators superpowers as he terms them to more effectively and efficiently produce food for the world. As I was listening to Casey's comments, it reminded me of one of our first practically ranching episodes. It seems like an eternity ago now, even though it was just last June. You know, we, we have a ton of new listeners and I appreciate the growth that you all have enabled us to do here on this podcast. But if you haven't already listened to episode three with Tom field. I'd encourage you to scroll back and listen to that one and see some of the similarities and some of the differences, but, uh, some of the the trends that Dr. Field discusses, then that Casey backs up here today. I'd like you to do that after. Of course you listen to this one, episode 32 with my friend, casey Niemann.

Track 1:

I think that you told me that Tammy had strict instructions that, any and all or certain college KSU stories that were

casey-niemann_2_02-08-2023_150112:

I'm gonna let you edit out. I, will just tell you the last one I did today, my Counterpart. She's like, case. I'm editing that so I was like, I'm assuming Matt, you've got some magic behind here. You can, you know,

Track 1:

And neither of our wives are here with us, so, um, I think, I think we get to tell anything

casey-niemann_2_02-08-2023_150112:

can tune

Track 1:

Yeah. and I think I told you this last week, for a few hours this morning, I was living your old life an f ffa. Our district, uh, contests were held in Eureka today, and so our local advisor asked if I would judge the interview contest, And, you know, like I always do, I commented about how much I missed out not being an FFA in high school,

casey-niemann_2_02-08-2023_150112:

yeah. Yeah.

Track 1:

Taking us back in time, that was, um, that was the first thing that I realized when I got to Kansas State University was just how much I had missed out on N F F A not being in that and, and our f F A chapter at the time, as you know, but for the listener's was pretty limited in its scope. And then I go to K State and I meet you and your now wife, Tammy Hubler at the time, and Paul Fredericks and Brent Weedman and Angie Stump and all these people that I was like, these are state officers of an organization that all I knew went to was the, to the tractor troubleshooting contest in the land judging in 1990, uh, 1990 something in Eureka, ffa. So, yeah, I've been excited to see my kids get very involved in FFA and, and I'm living, living life vicariously through them. And, so yeah, you tell us a little bit, I guess, about what FFA did for you as you were growing up through that program and as a state officer and all that.

casey-niemann_2_02-08-2023_150112:

well, I, you know, start with the headline that helped me find my wife.

Track 1:

There you go.

casey-niemann_2_02-08-2023_150112:

and Corduroy would've looked good on you Matt mean I you know, admired all the good things you were doing in four H and I was in four H too, but Corduroy would've looked good on Matt Perrier. So I'm glad you're first off. Thanks for volunteering your time. You know, you're probably in it for the long haul given the kids that you have. You're, once you're signed up, you're in for the long haul. But I would just say FFA was great. to me, I think it really helped me come outta my shell a little bit and get exposed to, you know, things beyond my own high school at the time. I had a great FFA advisor, Mr. Dave, me, who's still alive, still around. And in fact, we went to dinner, uh, a few months ago and just had a lot of laughs about the good times that we had, uh, at the Acheson County ffa. And, know, it, it, um, not only gave me an opportunity to, to learn some new things, but to meet a lot of great people who, you know, little did I know later on I would uh, have those same people. that lived with in college, that were in our wedding, that obviously married my wife. so I would just, it was a really great organization and know, if you're a young person out there and you're trying to learn some things about agriculture, it's a broad field, you know, and the nice part about FFA is that, to your point, it's a broad set of activities that chapters do these days. and, whether it's in the agribusiness and interview hoop things or, uh, meets judging kind of like your daughter's doing at K State or, you know, different scenarios, it's just, there's a great opportunity there to get young people exposed to our industry. And, and we need that, we need more people to kind of understand our production ag industry, our agribusiness industry, and, uh, anything we can do to encourage that is always good. So, it was definitely a, a, a bright spot when I was a young person.

Track 1:

Yeah. And you, you used that to it's fullest and, I presume, I mean, did you do an s SAE and all that, like everybody in FFA does, and did that have anything to do with what you've done over the last few years in terms of entrepreneurship and, and tech or, um, was it totally different?

casey-niemann_2_02-08-2023_150112:

It was different at the time. You know, the technology thing had not really

Track 1:

Yeah It was 1980 something.

casey-niemann_2_02-08-2023_150112:

we're old Matt, I did, I did an SAE program. Um, I worked for my uncle who, you know, both farmed, but we also back in the days, used to clean seed, you know, whether was wheat or soybeans, you would clean seed. This is before, you know, Roundup ready and everything came in and that was kind of my s AE program. And um, I always used to joke, and I still do with my uncle, I said, you sack and beans and wheat was hard work and. but the conversations we would have in between about the broader industry of agriculture, you know, I cherish those things and know, and I look at people who taught me how to think critically about agriculture. Certainly my, know, my dad, my uncle Eric, uh, that I worked for, for my FFA s ae, and then a shared professor that you and I had Barry Flinch ba um, I think taught a lot of us how to think critically about our industry and also the importance of being engaged, you know, in that and being a voice and advocate. And I think, you know, when I look at, uh, Matt and I are good college friends for those of you that are listening, but I could see then he was also gonna be a staunch voice, you know, for his industry. And so proud of you for doing that. I think it's great. I, I think as we look at the young people coming into our industry today, things like ffa, things like four H uh, help them to kind of get exposed and, and, uh, you know, beyond, uh, looking at it as a profession saying, do I love this industry? Do I wanna represent it? Do I care about it enough kind of go the extra mile in terms of, uh, advocating for it? So, hats off to you for, for doing that as well.

Track 1:

Well, I appreciate that and I appreciate you being on here because you're right. I mean, regardless if we're talking about cleaning seed or marketing livestock or developing the next labor saving, tech innovation, even with that technology, it's still a people business and it's still a, way to relate all of the different people and all the different moving parts and like you said, think critically and figure out solutions and. Programs like four H ffa and any exposure we get, uh, I think help us do that and, and do that well. Um, so tell us just briefly, when you were at K State, your major was, were you in Ag business? Is that right?

casey-niemann_2_02-08-2023_150112:

Yeah, I was an Ag business major. Uh, graduated in the late nineties. Spent a little bit of time, very brief amount of time at, Koch Industries before moving to what is now Syngenta. And I spent a few years at Syngenta in field sales out in Western Kansas and then in Nebraska. And, um, at the time I was working for Syngenta, my wife Tammy, uh, was a field rep for John Deere. So we were moving across all the exotic places in the Midwest, the Oasis on the planes out in Colby, and then Lincoln, Nebraska. And, um, then I uh, had kind of a chance encounter with, uh, a farm kid from Nebraska named Jeff Rakes, uh, who happened to be kind of the number three guy at Microsoft. So if you think Microsoft, back in the days, you had Bill Gates and Steve Bomber and then Jeff Rakes who was from Ashland, Nebraska, uh, was a farm kid. And, um, some people, Matt, get into Microsoft based upon talent. fact, most do. And then others have to take alternative routes. So um, I

Track 1:

won't ask, which.

casey-niemann_2_02-08-2023_150112:

I actually reached out to Jeff Rakes, this is back when it was pre nine 11. You could find somebody's email and just reach out to him. And I said, you know, Jeff, I think that you guys should start a vertical in agriculture and I would like to run it someday. And by the way, I know you're a big Nebraska fan and Bill Snyder's, Wildcats are gonna whip your Husker this weekend. That's how I signed the letter Okay

Track 1:

Gutsy move, man. Gutsy

casey-niemann_2_02-08-2023_150112:

had nothing to lose. So a few minutes later he's, he responds back

Track 1:

Oh,

casey-niemann_2_02-08-2023_150112:

and I didn't know where Jeff Rakes was at in the organization. Right. It's, you know, I knew who Microsoft was, but I certainly didn't know that I was reaching out to the number three person in the company. And he responds back, very cordial and says, Hey, I think your ideas about agriculture are interesting. In terms of, you know, what Microsoft should do there. He said, um, I'm a little concerned about your, you know, confidence in your Wildcats. Um but he said somebody will be in touch. So that weekend, bill Snyder and the Wildcats beat Nebraska for the first time in Lincoln in like 30 years. And the next week I had an interview at Microsoft and two weeks later they didn't, by the way create an agriculture vertical, but it got me into, uh, to Microsoft at a pretty young age. And I spent 15 years, at Microsoft. And that was, you know, transformative in terms of taking a farm kid from Kansas, passionate about agriculture and kind of dropping'em into what was still a young company. I think Microsoft only had about 30,000 people at the time. And, I was there for about 15 years.

Track 1:

Well, I think the important part about that is a, you took the initiative to open the door or maybe kick the door in. poor Jeff rakes his face. But when he came or they came back and said, Hey, you know, we're not going right to where you're talking in ag, but here's something else. You took a step on the bridge to wherever you thought it might go, and, and, and really it never did for my clarity, it never did necessarily go there with Microsoft, but it did with Casey Neiman,

casey-niemann_2_02-08-2023_150112:

right. I think at the time I was interested in technology and agriculture, but actually that role, they're never, uh, now I think they do have ag roles, but I, I miss that chapter of the book. But I, it got me my foot in the door and I was grateful to have a really good mentor at Microsoft. Uh, Chuck Vank, who again I still stay in touch with today, who had a great influence on me and helped me to kind of think about lifelong learning and the fact that a lot of technology that we see as kind of temporary, but if we're willing to, to learn and to listen, we can sort of make a career out of some of those things in technology. So, had a number of different roles. The last role, uh, that I was in at Microsoft was kind of on the cloud team back when the cloud was sort of a, a new thing, you know, and my job was to go into big companies. And in the Midwest, you know, I would be going into the, the Cargills and the Monsantos and the Deers and others of the world trying to convince them that the cloud was gonna be a big deal. most of that ended in rejection, right? Or them saying, no, not yet This

Track 1:

Yeah, that's what you think, buddy it's gonna be a

casey-niemann_2_02-08-2023_150112:

So they were still, you know, most of them were hugging their physical servers and the cloud was gonna be some mythical thing. obviously, you know, uh, and at the time there was a small team of us that were talking to large enterprises about the cloud, and we were led by, uh, Satya Nadela, who now leads all of Microsoft. And again, I think the good Lord put different people in my path, uh, going back to my FFA advisor, to Jeff Rakes, to Chuck Vank at Microsoft. then, you know, obviously, um, as I was looking at the opportunities that the cloud presented, I mean, for the first time entrepreneurs, individuals could go and build things on technology that scaled globally. In the past, we only let large companies do that, right? now the cloud was gonna kind of democratize the ability for entrepreneurs to solve big problems. without having to physically, you know, go build a data center or do something of that nature. And, you know, I was preaching that message daily to big companies, uh, and at, at one point realized, gosh, I should, I should think about solving some problems I'm passionate about in agriculture, um, maybe using these cloud services. And, um, you know, you fast forward a little bit. I was sitting on the deck of, of our family farm in Kansas, my dad and couple uncles, and, um, they were just talking about all the technology at the time coming into agriculture, right? The first kind of monitors and GPS systems and guidance and all of these things were coming to bear and they said, this is all great, but boy, when it breaks, it really breaks. Like we are stopped kind of dead in our tracks when this technology doesn't work. I think we'd had a young gentleman that had kind of helped get some of that set up that decided to move or leave or, I can't recall the details, but the reality was we had lots of technology, but we had a shortage of humans that could help us get value out of it And that really became the thesis for and so, you know, I, I was sitting there thinking, gosh, you know, we've got these capabilities to, to build things in the cloud. Um, I was probably a little overconfident Matt, thinking, gosh, I've been at Microsoft for 15 years. I've been, you know, preaching this message. But boy, when you have to sit and actually soak it in and do it, that became a much, much harder path.

Track 1:

So when was that conversation roughly on the deck with your dad and uncles?

casey-niemann_2_02-08-2023_150112:

that would've been about 2014.

Track 1:

Okay.

casey-niemann_2_02-08-2023_150112:

and um, I had in my head I, I was still at Microsoft and, but I had thought about, gosh, I'm turning 40. If I'm ever gonna break away from corporate America and try to start a business, I better get after it. And, I've also got three kids in a mortgage. And, um, and candidly had been softened a little bit by corporate America, right? It was, working at Microsoft was a pretty good gig. It was pretty cushy. There was not a lot of risk. And I recall having a discussion with my wife and I said, Hey, I think that we should choose courage over comfort. Are you in this with me if I decide to go do something else? And uh, Tammy was very supportive of that. And will tell you, like if you're an entrepreneur or a would-be entrepreneur out there listening. you better have that conversation, right? You wanna make sure the people in your home court are supportive of that change. Because my dream of entrepreneurship became my wife's and my family's sacrifice over the next seven years. I think a lot of times we think about, you know, these tech folks that kind of think of a great idea and a year later the ipo o and that only happens in the news, right? That's not reality. So, it takes a good home team. And think for me that, um, you know, having that support and certainly it helped having practical application and ag and growing up on a farm and working at Microsoft. Those were all good things. I'll tell you, the first few years it was tough to get, things started. And, and you know, at, at one point I made a, a list, a very long list. or actually I started with a thing, a list of things that I was good at, which was a pretty short list at the time And then I made a much longer list of things that I was not good at, that stunk at. I said, who could I get to take the other side of this list? And I actually went back and thinking back to people I'd met in ffa, met in college in Jared Westfall, who became my wingman for developing AgriSync. He was good at all the things that I wasn't good at. Right. I liked to, liked the technology, I liked sales, I liked working with customers. He liked finance, legal, tax operations. And had done that at another, company. And I said, Jared, do you want to jump in and take this risk with me? And, um, know, he just became a great compliment to. My skillset, not only did we, you know, get along well, but held a lot of the same core values you know, from a work ethic perspective. And, you know, the two of us were, were fortunate enough to really take the idea, the concept that I had, and turn it into a business

Track 1:

Well, that worked awfully well, obviously, and, and you'd mentioned all the tech startups that come up with the great widget and then go public within a year. They all start in their garage too. Right. So I, this one did it, uh, did it start at home? I mean, were you in the garage just Steve Jobs and and everybody

casey-niemann_2_02-08-2023_150112:

in the basement. So it's, it's always funny because people talk about, you know, starting these businesses in their house, in their basement, and I absolutely did that. and it was. Lean the first couple years, Matt, it was very difficult and we were making a lot of sacrifices as a family, you know, and I still, my son who's now in college at K State, he jokes with me. He's like, you remember the year that I made more money than, than you did mowing grass? And I said, yes, thanks for reminding so, you know, we had obviously saved and had kind of thought through the process a bit, uh, but the first few years were, were humbling. And I think, um, you know, all of us think about corporate America that provides us all these benefits and things. All of that went away, right? had to have a, and I were having a heart to heart. She had to go back to, to work and was commuting 60 miles one way just to be able to help, uh, you know, support kind of those early endeavors. So again, super grateful in my encouragement to other folks that are, you know, entrepreneurs or building anything. is that, you know, that hard work, that grit that you develop in those early years really helps you understand, uh, you know, not only who you are, but probably who you are and, and how to build on that. And so that, um, that was certainly, uh, as I look back, you know, helped me really, appreciate, you know, the end goal. And I think, again, a lot of people think that it just happens right away. It took seven years right before uh, we became part of deer. And so I think, you know, from that standpoint, it was a definitely a marathon, not a sprint.

Track 1:

Were there times, I assume that you seriously considered saying it's not gonna happen. I, I mean, I know that there are little times in, in anybody's life when you go, ah, I'm not sure this was right. But did you ever get close to saying, well, it was worth the, worth a shot, but we're not gonna make it.

casey-niemann_2_02-08-2023_150112:

Yeah, I, I think there were those moments. you know, again, a few years in, we started developing relationships with some of the major manufacturers and larger companies. And we had those relationships, started to kind of see how if we really listened, really listened and focused didn't a shotgun approach, but more of a rifle approach to solving the problem at hand, that good things would come. And, you know, we didn't, uh, You know, we took a small amount of outside capital from very like-minded investors, again, with good values, good interest in the agriculture industry and patient. And so I think sometimes, you know, uh, young companies or startups get so consumed with raising capital or taking outside investment that they sort of lose sight of their customers or kind of their North Star. I think for us, we took a pretty conservative approach there and instead really leaned into listening to our customers. And more and more of those customers were, you know, John Deere dealers and, and, and people with John Deere that were giving us good feedback how to really create, you know, a great customer experience for their end customers. And so, that helped build confidence. And then, you know, once you have those larger relationships, you have to prove it out. And so, you know, the only, uh, You know, person I've dated longer than my wife of nine years was probably John Deere, cuz we dated them for five years before they finally, you know, proposed. And I think, you know, part of that was, you know, I could see that they had not only the, the right people, the right motivations, but they had a strategy. And I think, you know, sometimes when we think about startups working with big companies, it's really important that whatever your product, your service is, fits into the strategy of that bigger company. Uh, as entrepreneurs, we're typically good at solving problems, right? Solving an issue. typically stink at distribution. And getting it into kind of this. Uh, approach and strategy. So big companies are really good at strategy, really good at global distribution. so for, for us, it was a good fit because, you know, we were solving a good problem. But, you know, I can remember telling, our friends at John Deere at the time, I said, I don't think I'll ever get this globally distributed on my own. because my ability to, you know connect with all the right people in Europe and South America and all the other parts of the world that kind of need services like this is gonna be much harder to do on my own than it would be if we were part of a larger organization. And so, you know, I think again, if you're thinking about entrepreneurship, thinking a lot about and how you would gain broad appeal, because there's a lot of great ideas, especially in tech that sort of die on the vine because they don't think through. how people are gonna find out about their product or service.

Track 1:

Well, on the flip side of that, when you. A behemoth like John Deere, they're great at strategy and sometimes it's hard to make an organization that big, find the minutiae and solve the little problems. And, and that's why it appears to be anyway, a great fit. Um, you know, you came up with this technology that they probably needed and didn't even know it, and they had the, as you said, the, the supply chain and the structure and, and things that, that could actually bring it to market. So I know everybody is saying, so what the heck is this thing that he developed? Um, and I don't know how much or how little you want to go into that, but give us the 30,000 foot view of what AgriSync is or what it was and now what it is and, and, um, maybe even going forth, what, where you see it going?

casey-niemann_2_02-08-2023_150112:

Yeah. Yeah. So I, the fundamental problem that we try to solve is think about all the technology that's entering the ag industry think about the producer who needs to make sure that technology works is reliable and ready when they need it to work. And many of you can think of a time maybe you've been on the farm where you've had an issue with a monitor or a piece of technology, or just understanding how to use, you know, your equipment or, or even your agronomy type services properly. We made it easy for that in customer to have one-touch access to a team of experts, this case, at their local John Deere. Who could help them remotely and be able to solve that issue and hopefully get'em back up and running. Um, and think about the, the complexity, you know, our producers have to manage every day. I mean, Matt, just think about your own operation and all of the different variables. And most producers want to use technology or a new product or a new service, but they're a little hesitant if that technology breaks and they're in Eureka, Kansas, and the expert that knows how to solve it is somewhere else. Moline, Illinois, right? And so we kind of bridge that gap using communications, uh, technology that makes it easy to kind of have one touch access to those experts. And not only to support it, but also to train up customers. Um, so sounds simple enough, and people would say, oh, support and communication. It's not very sexy, you know, and I think back to all the different startup competitions I would go to and. I would walk in with our support platform and, you know, some other person would come in with a big shiny drone or a new data type tool, or some remote sensor and, you know, they would win the prize and we would be, you know, second or third or, or whatnot. And people would often say like, how are you gonna make a living with support and communication in agriculture? And I said, well, I'm gonna die trying. Right? And the reality was that sometimes very practical solutions, you know, win out sometimes very practical solutions that everybody just kind of needs, you know, are good things. And so, you know, I was very fortunate to get really passionate about support and communication in agriculture. And, um, that became kind of a key pillar. And as we think about, you know, Uh, a company like John Deere who has a lot of r and d in the pipeline in terms of new technologies, new capabilities, we are still only as good our in customer farmer and our local dealer when it comes to executing and adopting those technologies. So we kind of view our role to help kind of expand the capacity, you know, of our dealers. And, you know, if you haven't looked around in rural America, we are short on humans. Okay? We are struggling to, you know, people who wanna work on the front lines of agriculture in remote areas. And so whether it be technologies like ours or otherwise, they become very necessary to scale limited amount of subject matter experts and connect them with a local farmer who might be remote. And, um, that same problem, that same labor crisis that, you know, uh, we see in Iowa, Kansas is, is a global problem for us. And, you know, I'm not concerned at all on will we have enough technology and production capabilities to feed the planet. I'm concerned that we're gonna burn everybody out that's on the front lines of agriculture if we don't put some capabilities in there to help'em kind of manage the chaos every day. And that's, that's kind of our, our approach and that's what we do.

Track 1:

Are you also concerned that there aren't enough? entrepreneurs and aren't enough people that are willing to take the risk that you're talking about, um, and try something new and different that maybe that they wouldn't have to because in the, from a standpoint of production ag, mom and dad or grandma and grandpa didn't do it that way, and I've already got these cows, or I've already got this farm and, um, I can make it, I can make it work somehow. or in your case, you're already working for Microsoft. It's a great gig. There's no real incentive to go out there and roll the dice and risk everything you've got. I see that in a lot of places within and outside of agriculture, but probably as much within ag. We, we take a lot of risks, don't get me wrong. I mean, mother Nature deals us enough, 365 days of the year, but sometimes you mentioned that hesitancy that we have to adopt technology. and, and you're probably right that it's largely because we don't know how to work on it and we don't know who around is going to be able to work on it, but sometimes it's because we've never done it that way before. And, and I see it more probably in livestock production, specifically the cow calf segment of the beef industry than I do anyplace else. what would you say from your standpoint, cuz you kind of shopped this technology around to a lot of different segments of agriculture, right? And you landed on what I would call the, the row crop side with deer. From your standpoint, as you were growing this, did you see opportunities that were maybe missed within the beef industry for something like this? And if so, why? And how do we, how do we address that going?

casey-niemann_2_02-08-2023_150112:

Yeah. No, and we had some good partners in the animal health space that we had worked with, and there are definitely people thinking about these same challenges, specifically in beef and swine, and think is those, especially the frontline producers get more reliant on technology. I, I would fully expect there's gonna be capabilities there. I am, am concerned at times that we have entrepreneurs who are all chasing consolidated list of things versus getting entrepreneurs to really solve a wider array of issues. And so, you know, I'll pick on, you know, probably farm management software in a few of these areas that, where we've got lots of people chasing the same thing. Right. Same way with, uh, just think drones data. There's always seems to be new sort of capabilities there. And, and these are good problems to solve, at times I think we need to step back and say, Hey, do we how are we gonna pick a winner with dozens and dozens of people chasing the same problem when we've got a, another set of challenges over here that. That we can't seem to get the incentives right for an entrepreneur to take a risk on. I think the other challenge is that we need to be more open to non-ag people coming in to our industry and helping us solve these problems. know, you and I, Matt, grow both grew up on farms, both, you know, got ag degrees, we've kind of walked the traditional walk of, you know, being in our industry. But we need to be open to people with completely diverse backgrounds, different perspectives coming in, and maybe with fresh eyes they can look at some of the problems we have and think differently about it. And I think sometimes we are, from a culture perspective, we write people off the moment they say they're, you know, from one of the coast and they're trying to solve our problems encouragement, hear those folks out, right? Um, not all of'em are gonna have the great answers and they're definitely gonna need context, but, You know, there is, uh, there's a broader interest in where our food comes from now than there probably has ever been. And we need to embrace that and encourage entrepreneurs of all walks of life to come into our ecosystem and say, Hey, can you help us solve this? And I think in particular, you know, you, you mentioned the beef industry, cow calf, we've gotta embrace that. You have a product that everybody loves. Everybody would love to have more of it But obviously from a price point, we price a lot of people out consuming it. Now we know once they have a a great steak, I always want another steak, right? Nobody ever goes and leaves the table and it's like, ow that was awful. I never want another ribeye. Instead they're saying, gosh, I, you know, how much do I have to save, et cetera, until I get a ribeye and I'm talking globally, right? So part of it is, is sitting there thinking about, you know, how can we. Use technology to create, know, more efficiencies, et cetera, so that we can, know, share that product, that great experience with a broader set of people. And, you know, I can tell you there's people that are thinking through that, but I do think the distribution of entrepreneurship has been dis, especially an ag has been disproportionately focused on row crop relative to animal health. And we're starting to see that pendulum swing a little more. You're starting to see some wins and success in the animal health space, and I applaud those. I think there needs to be more of it. but I think we still have what I would call some underserved parts of our food production system that, know, could, could benefit from entrepreneurship. And a lot of it is just, do we get the right entrepreneurs in our production systems? Are they willing to listen? You a lot of times. the arrogance of entrepreneurs is toxic, and they've gotta be willing to kind of fail quickly and, humble themselves enough to be able to, to know. Because I would tell you today, we are still not done building our product. We are still listening. We are still trying to figure out what can we do next? And so, know, my encouragement, if you're, producer out there in the beef industry or other, know, food production systems, is we, we wanna encourage entrepreneurship cuz we're not gonna catch up with just throwing more warm bodies at our problems. We are short on humans and that problem's not gonna solve.

Track 1:

So a few of these technologies, and as you were talking about all the entrepreneurs that may be from outside of. farming and ranching, or at least have taken a step away. It reminded me a friend of a mutual friend of ours, uh, Justin Boyk called me, I bet it's been three years ago. And, um, so Justin works in New York City hedge fund manager, at least at the time he was, I assume he still is. And he was talking about some friends of his in the Silicon Valley who were looking at finding a ranch to retail type of mechanism to bring beef from producer to consumer directly and basically cut out a few middlemen. And this was pre Covid d I'm gonna say it was probably 20 18, 19, and I've never circled back. I need to get back with Justin and see if one of these many ranch to retail type, you know, mail order direct to consumer marketing programs is, is one of these that they were talking about. But I don't think we realize in the beef industry, we hear about all the. The new packer processing plants or, or this or that family that is selling direct to consumer beef. But I'm not sure we realize the millions of dollars that are being funneled at those types of programs. and, you know, that's, that's the tip of the iceberg. Then there are more practical uses, as you said about, you know, from animal health standpoint and things like that. But those are some of those programs that I think that all of us need to realize are coming, whether, whether we are the first or the last to adopt them, somebody is probably going to adopt them. And, and it's a way to probably tell that story even better and hopefully connect with the consumers in the, in the most efficient way.

casey-niemann_2_02-08-2023_150112:

Well, and I think it's a good example of people who are saying, in order to to win, to innovate, I'm gonna change the rules of the game. Right? And a lot of times, especially, you know, in agriculture, we think, gosh, the rules are set. We've gotta play by the rules. We've gotta just get a little more efficient than the next person. But the rules are, you know, who can be the low cost producer of a good or service? and I'll give an example of a time when the rules were changed in my lifetime. you know, when, there was a period of time when I was at Microsoft where, I don't know what our market share was, but it was pretty darn high, meaning everybody on the planet was opening up a laptop or a computer and it had windows on it. And we just thought, gosh, will it always be like this was the personal computer, if you will, the game that we were playing. And if it was, we were, we were winning. Okay. And then who was struggling at the time, again, early two thousands, comes out with a little music player, happened to be pretty cool, but it was small, it was portable, and, and at the time there were a lot of people, people, brilliant people at Microsoft who were like, that's fine, let'em, that's a different. that's a different problem they're trying to solve. We're playing this game over here, right? Well, eventually that music player turned into a smartphone and the smartphone turned into a tablet and the tablet and the smartphone and the, you know, their computer and the music service created an ecosystem. And all of a sudden you woke up one morning and you're like, wait a minute. I was winning the game over here. And somebody just completely started playing a new game on a new field was kicking our tail. And you know, when we think about way our food production system works today, we sometimes shake our head at folks who are wanting to have a more direct model, right? We're like, oh, they could never get rid of, you know, the middle people or the, there's all these issues, you scale food safety, you know, pick your list. Right? would just tell you, be cautious of saying the word never, cuz I've been on the other end of that. and, uh, it kind of stinks to wake up in the morning and realize, gosh, we missed it Now, obviously, you know, I, I'm pretty sure Microsoft figured out a way to make money last year and, and it's done well with it. But sometimes, there are disruptors and we're starting to see some of that, you know, think about what's happening with um, and there's bumps along the way. You know, pick on Tesla and automotive and electrification, you know, pick all the reasons why that may fail. Okay? There's lots of problems there, but I'll also tell you like, be cautious of people who are willing go start a new game with new rules and new distribution. Because every now and then, one of those folks really solves it. And, you know, I applaud the folks that are just getting creative and thinking about it. I think it's, again, good for our ecosystem and. know, kind of helps us have options. What we know about the, the consumer is they want options and as long as there's a market demand to, to fit those options, I think we'll, we'll continue to see, know, progress there.

Track 1:

So one of those new disruptors that I think is here and is gonna get nothing but bigger is artificial intelligence. And um, the first time I heard AI used as a term that wasn't the AI that I grew up with, it's probably been five to 10 years ago. But, AI today to everyone outside of the beef cattle industry is no longer artificial insemination, but artificial intelligence. So take that a step further. I think it's been three weeks ago I was listening to a podcast and a guy talks about this chat, G P T. technology, and we'll go into a little bit what that is. I assume most of the people listening here have at least heard about it, if not tried it. But, um, the company that started chat, g p t is called Open ai, which won't make sense to a lot of folks who are outside of a livestock breed association. But open AI was a concept back in the late seventies, early eighties that allowed us to use genetics from bulls that we didn't necessarily own by simply buying a 30 or 40 or$50 AI breeding certificate. So it opened the ai, artificial insemination world to use whoever's genetics was willing to sell'em to you. And so at that time, OpenAI was a big deal cuz I didn't have to go out and buy a high dollar Bull for 10 or$20,000 at the time, or$50,000, which would've been like six figures today. Today it's become a part of the business. OpenAI isn't even something that most recent entries into the breed association or livestock genetics world even, even consider. Fast forward to now. OpenAI is a company that has formed this chat, G P T, which I had to look it up. G P T stands for generative pre-trained transformer. Basically it's a bot that can do things for me, relatively simple things. if and only if I can sort through all the traffic that's trying to use it right now. I mean, that's how popular I've tried to get on a couple times and just play with it. And it always says that it's waiting because there's so many millions of people across the world online trying to use chat and G P t. Tell me what AI, from your perspective, cuz you've been watching a, a lot closer than I have, what does it hold in store, I guess for society in general, but specifically in the, in the ag. area as we go forth. what are what are the benefits? What are the negatives? What are we looking at?

casey-niemann_2_02-08-2023_150112:

Well, I think it's a big deal. Let me start just by saying, I think there will be a time when our kids will say, Hey, remember what happened in 2023? It was the first time that AI became kind of mainstreamed. And so I do think the same way that Matt, when you and I were in college and somebody said, Hey, do you wanna go see Netscape? And it was a big deal to be able to see things on the internet. And we were like, wow, that

Track 1:

one of'em who made fun of me when I went down in the basement of whatever that hall was across from the union and got an email address in like 1994. You're

casey-niemann_2_02-08-2023_150112:

need? Well, you were probably so popular. followers back then,

Track 1:

No, that, that was the problem. I wasn't, so I was trying to find new roads.

casey-niemann_2_02-08-2023_150112:

Yeah. I was finding, you know, I was fine to go meet people in Aggie. Matt was trying to, you know, we won't go there I'll just say number one, I think it's a big deal, not because it's, it's, it's reaching mass appeal, but once you get everybody's kind of eyeballs on it, it's gonna improve very quickly. And I will go back to one of our fundamental challenges we have in ag is the lack of humans. And specifically, how do we disperse all of the knowledge that we have in the, the few people that we have feeding the rest of the planet. And the ability for us to use AI to sort of give existing producers, folks kind of superpowers. And, you know, we talk a lot at Deere about how we can. know, build intelligent machines that sort of give operators superpowers, right? The ability to cover more acres and less fatigue and to be able to do it more accurately and to, you know, see weeds and spray them and all of these things. And in a similar approach, right? We're talking about how do we give, you know, our industry, kind of some of these, superhuman capabilities using ai. Now, I know some people listen to that and they instantly kind of, get scared. And, and certainly with any technology, even though it might be intended for good, there are always gonna be some bad actors. And we'll probably see that come to bear, right? If you're a high school kid, Getting your English paper written today by chat g p t, stop that. Write your own English paper. Right. I will just say that, know, I see more opportunity for AI to solve some of our labor and our knowledge disbursement challenges in our industry. I do think it'll be transformative. And we've been talking about AI for a number of years, but in the last couple of months it's kind of grown to a fever pitch. And this little company, OpenAI has a relationship with Microsoft for distribution. Well, those two together

Track 1:

Yeah.

casey-niemann_2_02-08-2023_150112:

will probably get some things done and this will also probably change the way we think about, know, searching on Google and other platforms. So I'm excited about it. I think there's a lot of people right now in agriculture trying to think about different problems that we solve. And let's face it, we work in a complex business. There is a lot of data to sift through. and the ability for us to have AI as kind of a superpower, if you will, to help us discern and make some decisions. And at least, I still think a lot of producers are gonna make decisions based upon their gut, their history. But having data to that would be, yeah, not, hopefully not the Farmer's Almanac. But think about it, Matt. I mean, you're in a, you're in this business every day and know, think of all the data that you go through your own environment. There is a huge opportunity for AI to kind of help us validate, simplify, and I'm excited about it. I think it's a big deal. the key is solving practical problems, you know, that we have, and I think a lot of the practical challenges that we have are limited labor. lots of land acres, sort of volume, whether we're talking about a, know, a produ, a cow calf producer, a feed lot manager, a row crop person. There's just a lot of moving parts. And today I think we've got a lot of data and very few like tangible insights. And so if AI can help us sift through all of that data and give us some tangible insights, or at least validate that our gut feeling about a decision we're gonna make some, some merit behind it, I think that'll be helpful. but yeah, if write it down, I think your, our kids, Lyle will say someday, he will say, Hey, remember what happened in 2023. That was the year that, you know, we kind of saw the first things around AI become part of the norm.

Track 1:

Yeah. It's, it's scary and exciting all at the same time. I mean, I can just think through all these different things from a standpoint of genetic selection and mating decisions that we make on, on a cow herd. And, and then at the same time, I can think about what happens when you do nothing but analyze data and don't have to be out there with them every day and find out, okay, there was an unintended consequence of this decision that as a human being whose fifth generation beef producer I didn't see coming. What would happen if I had a computer doing all these mats? I mean, just how, how many unintended consequences or how fast would we get to those if. If the chatbot was telling me how to breed these cows. And so yeah, there's, it's a balance.

casey-niemann_2_02-08-2023_150112:

Yeah. Hopefully it allows us to get to the right answers faster, but also acknowledge that we. Might get to wrong answers more quickly too,

Track 1:

Yeah. Cuz it'll do both. It will do and, and, you know, as, as tech tends to do. And you talked about when Microsoft or when, um, apple came out with the iPod. I did, I think I heard this morning that Google has either come to market or has announced that they will have a similar technology to chat G P T that they'll be offering. And so, uh, yeah, the game, it's game on, I'm sure in the Silicon Valley. And as you said, everybody in the ag segment chases the same shiny object, whether it be a drone or an ID software application or whatever else. I'd say there are billions being put into. Some sort of G P T and, and, uh, or some sort of ai I should say. And, everybody will have one here in a, within a year.

casey-niemann_2_02-08-2023_150112:

I think the thing that we know is we've got a lot of demands on our food production system, and I specifically, Matt, for your audience, I would just encourage, like, you have a phenomenal product, everybody wants it. And as I've been able to travel a little more and I think about once people have higher quality protein, they never want to go back. I mean that presents a huge opportunity and a challenge. You know, how do we deliver that? How do we supply that consistently, globally, cost effectively? And I always want all the help I can get. I want, you know, whether it be technology or ai, uh, sometimes even a little grace if we screw it up and get it wrong the first time. So, know, I think those are really fundamentally good things that you gotta be optimistic if. you're in the beef industry right now about just the opportunities ahead,

Track 1:

Well, I appreciate that cuz sometimes those day-to-day, uh, tasks that we have right here on the ranch, don't allow us to see that. And yeah, we can look at the short term, uh, from the supply side of, of the economics picture. We are. relatively, uh, sure that, that there are brighter days ahead for sure, in terms of prices. But yeah, long term, I think that's where we don't realize, we really don't recognize just how many hungry folks there are across this world that are hopefully moving up in their economic levels to a point where they can have high quality protein and, and generations before them never have experienced. And like you said, once they get it, they want more. And so that's, that's a very good point. It's just up to us to figure out ways and a lot of these are gonna be, involve new technologies to, to make sure we feed that hunger. Well, Casey, I really appreciate your, uh, being with us today and, and all the insight you shared. you've done a great job for Wildcats. Uh, I guess you owe it all. It sounds to me like the, with that first conversation with, uh, Microsoft, just like so many you. You owe it all to Coach Snyder. Had had we not beat the Cornhusker in that game. You know, he, he may have said, uh, this cocky rascal doesn't know anything. uh, luckily he finally, finally won up there in Lincoln. And your ship sailed,

casey-niemann_2_02-08-2023_150112:

Well, as I said before, Matt, some people like yourself go through life with great talent and capability, and others of us have to get a little more So um you know, I would just tell you I'm, I'm number one. I'm excited. I appreciate. the fact that you're getting the voice out there, and, and I would encourage others, right? Be part of the conversation, get engaged because, we typically, if the good Lord puts people in our path like this, we can learn. And, uh, as I look back when, you know, we met in college, but also continued, chapters of life that we go through, I think it's, we gotta be grateful for being able to meet people who care about their industry, are willing to advocate for it and want to see progress. And so, uh, congrats to you and, and all the progress that you've made, uh, not just with the podcast and the ranch, but with family and all the really important stuff, that you're doing outside of this is pretty awesome. So, congrats.

Track 1:

Well, I've had, uh, I've had good folks to learn from like yourself, and I appreciate, the kind words, but you're right. That's, that's basically people ask, you know, why are you doing this podcast? That's it. It, it is to have folks who have made a difference, who recognize, you know, it takes more than just. Luck. it takes faith in God. It takes hard work and, and a little creativity and, and like you said, it helped takes help from everybody else. So, uh, keep up the good work. Keep in touch and thanks again for being on here.

casey-niemann_2_02-08-2023_150112:

Thanks, Matt.

Track 1:

You bet.

Matt:

Thanks for joining us for practically ranching, brought to you by Dalebanks Angus. If you enjoyed the podcast, heck even if you didn't... help us improve by leaving a comment with your review wherever you heard us. And if you want to listen again, click subscribe and catch us next week. God bless, and we look forward to visiting again soon.

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