Practically Ranching
Join Matt Perrier as he visits weekly with interesting, thoughtful, entertaining individuals within the beef community. Conversations will inspire curiosity and creativity while maintaining the independent spirit and practical nature for which ranchers are known.
Practically Ranching
# 63 - Bradley Wolter, From Sows to Cows
Bradley Wolter is a relative newcomer to the beef business, but has certainly been a student of the industry since his move from a successful career in the swine industry.
In this episode, we talk about his tenure with Maschhoffs, one of the largest family-owned pork producers in the United States. We talk about data collection, management strategy, operational efficiency and the major differences between pork and beef production systems and cultures.
Bradley and his family now own and operate Windy Hill Meadows, an Angus seedstock and consumer-focused beef business in Aviston, IL.
Thanks for joining us for episode 63 of practically ranching. I'm Matt Perrier and we are here. Thanks to Dalebanks Angus Eureka, Kansas. We're finalizing our catalog for the upcoming sale. November 23rd, they should be printed soon. If you'd like to receive one. Go to Dalebanks.com and drop us a request. While you're there, fill out our three minute survey on genetic selection and trait priorities for your cow herd, and you'll even receive a hundred dollars credit toward a bull purchase for that time that you spend. You know, it's evident that while we named this thing, practically ranching. A few of my episodes may warrant a name, change to philosophically ranching or something similar. It's obvious that I sometimes go a little deeper into an issue or a concept than a straight to the point cattlemen should. And this episode would probably qualify as one of those discussions. Bradley Walter is a cattleman today. But he spent over two decades in the pork industry. And during this, his second career in the beef business, he's trying to use the things that he learned from pigs and apply them to our beef model. He's learned that it's no small feat. So as I'm prone to do, I took us way off track at several points in this podcast. And I've thought I'd just edit out those unnecessary portions and get down to my normal hour episode length. The problem was. I couldn't do it. Throughout this discussion. Bradley continued to share little nuggets of wisdom and experiences that I just couldn't bear to take out. So you're getting the full load. We cover applied research challenges and animal agriculture comparisons and contrasts between the beef and pork industries. The lack of data collection and technology use by cattlemen management strategies, business principles, confined cow feeding, and even the dis economies of scale in livestock production. Now Bradley shares early on that while he's always been interested in research and data analysis. His real passion is applying that analyze data to answer questions and problems on farms and ranches. And that's what this episode I hope we'll do. Help us all as Bradley says, chase the Why. As we try to find solutions to challenges in our agricultural businesses. So, thanks again for listening and enjoy this conversation with Bradley Wolter.
matt_2_10-14-2024_120415:Well, I didn't even pay attention this weekend. Did U of I football, uh, Were they victorious or did they have a game this weekend?
bradley_2_10-14-2024_120415:victorious. Yeah, pretty exciting finish actually. Yep, they, they were victorious. We're off, we got a good, good thing going here. So does,, how about K State, huh? Those guys are pulling it out too.
matt_2_10-14-2024_120415:it was kind of the same story. We, uh, it was a nail biter to the end, but, uh, somehow we, we got past neon Deion and the primetime cast in Boulder. And yeah, it was, it it's, it's fun to see these ag schools doing as well as they are.
bradley_2_10-14-2024_120415:Yes, no question about it.
matt_2_10-14-2024_120415:So speaking of U of I give us just a little bit of your history. And, most of our cattle folks won't necessarily recognize you from the beef industry standpoint. But the reason I have you on here is what you did throughout grad school and then immediately after. So give us a feel for where you got to prior to today, and then we'll see how it all fits together today.
bradley_2_10-14-2024_120415:Yeah, Matt, I, uh, so I'm, I'm an Illinois farm kid grew up, in Southern Illinois, uh, south of, St. Louis by about an hour and, uh, grew up in diversified in the diversified grain and livestock farm. And my grandma had 400 laying hens. My grandpa had 30 registered Polled Hereford cows and my dad had about 60 sows on pasture. So that was the livestock, a little bit of everything and got me exposed to the consumer. We took those eggs to town every Friday. I remember very, very vividly. Perhaps a generation behind most and, you know, in that way, I remember the three on a tree Chevy taking those eggs to town and, and the, you know, the consumer, uh, interaction that my grandmother had. So that's the, the, the core origins and my interest in livestock. But we had row cropping as well, but it was, you know, small scale. And then of course there was an 80s farm crisis in there and that, uh, created a lot of trepidation on my dad's part, um, to do much more than, put pigs on a, on a part time basis. So, I grew up, uh, primarily with pigs, just developed a real passion for the animals, really liked the hands on aspect and, um, just had, always had a real itch to understand how we could be better. Um, how we could make more with less, uh, really. You know, was inspired as an FFA member and, you know, really just had a passion for how do we feed the world? How do we do that in a more responsible way? All those things is those of us that grew up in in agriculture. I think, you know, most don't understand how passionate we are about that. So that led me, uh, to skip school one day. My FFA advisor allowed me to take a day off and I went to something called the Grange, a meeting in Southern Illinois where the University of Illinois Extension folks and gentleman by the name of Dr. Bob Easter spoke and he enlightened me in the world of swine nutrition and I thought there's exactly the guy I want to become someday. And, uh, make a long story extremely short. he went on to be president of the university, uh, but, uh, to his credit, uh, Dr. Easter really got me engaged at the university. Went there after high school. Um, got there, got the opportunity, to not only be a part of the AGR house, but, uh, to work on the university swine farm that led me to a relationship with a gentleman by the name of Dr. Mike Ellis, who oversaw, Swine Genetics and Breeding Program at the University, and, just suffice it to say, about nine years later, I left the University of Illinois with,, uh, degrees in, uh, with, with bachelor's, master's, and, and a Ph. D. degree, and, and my real interest has always been to be at the applied end of things. And so while I'm a guy that's always chasing the why, why something works, and how do we make it better, um, my real interest has always been to be at the applied end and making sure that, you know, what questions we're answering from a research perspective, um, has application actually makes the production model better. And, uh, along that, that journey in my advanced degree there at the university, I, uh, feel extremely fortunate to have come across, the Mashoff family. They're also Southern Illinois natives, and, uh, in the, in the late 90s, as I was, uh, you know, starting in the graduate school, there was a new technology, new concept really, I would probably stop short of calling it technology, but this concept of growing pigs from weaning to market or wean to finish in the same barn was a brand new concept. There were a couple of these barns, you know, basically it's a finishing barn, but it was accommodating, um, you know, in terms of the feeders and penning and, and so it, it, Uh, it accommodated, uh, these, these 14 pound weaned pigs, um, but there were more questions than answers, right? What's the perfect environment from a thermal regulation point of view? What, you know, you got a 14 pound pig, what's the feeder space requirement for that versus a 300 and Um, you know, 35 pound pig. And again, here, here's the same, same barn environment that has to accommodate that wide range of biological growth. And, and so I thought that was pretty interesting to, to get at some of those questions and, and not only from a biological point of view, you know, let the pig tell us what was optimum. also to apply the economic thesis to it. And say you know what, what's the right outcome for the food supply chain. And so I was very fortunate that came across the Mashoff family. They, they had just built one of these farms. And, and they sort of, you know gave me open, free access to, to work. build on the data that I was collecting, um, at the university and actually take it to the field, uh, do controlled publishable. I've got, uh, uh, several of these papers published in the Journal of Animal Science. Again, they're dated now, uh, but, but back in the day. And, and the point, I guess, you know, trying to emphasize is just always working at the applied end, you know, with passionate and deep understanding of the biology, but not stopping there. putting the financial context to the numbers and, and ultimately determining, you know, what's best for the food system in the long term. And, uh, I was just passionate about that, came across the Mashoff family in that process, as I've said, and then, uh, when I was done, they had an interest in me joining their business, uh, which was about, uh, you know, about twenty some thousand sows at the time, and, and, uh, with with the constrained, if you will, to Southern Illinois, at least that's where they were with the build of that business. two brothers, Ken and, and Dave, who, who, did make it through the, the farm crisis, the 80s. I've got to give them a lot of credit. They came out of school in 79 and 81, respectively, and formed a partnership and had the support of their parents, uh, in some ways as well. But, but those guys really, uh, grew a business very successfully through a very difficult time. Very conservative folks. Again, we grew up in the same geography. We sort of shared that in common. Uh, in 2000 and, and two, I went to work for the Mashoffs full-time with the, the charge of overseeing all things technical. So again, I had done the, the research I had, you know, learned the economic models and, and principles of, financials and, in, in my. prior life. And now I wanted to see, could I really put it to work? And while I was trained by a geneticist, I would tell you that most of my work focused on, you know, the biology of growth. I ended up always following my studies through into commercial plants and took carcass measures all the way down to 72 point primal dissections. And so I've been blessed, you know, to really see The entire pork industry, from, from start to finish and, and really understand marginal economic values of the entire supply chain, throughout my career. And, and, uh, we grew that, that company from, you know, those 20, 000 South and Southern Illinois, at our peak in, in, uh, 2012, we had about 230, 000 sows in 13 states. We grew the business largely through acquisition, but we did have some organic, uh, you know, new facility growth as well. Um, and so we spent about a decade growing a business on a little over 20 percent compounded annual growth rate. And at one point, we actually sought to diversify, uh, into, uh, into poultry. And, uh, we owned a GMP, uh, poultry company, which would, many folks perhaps listening to the podcast may identify with"Just Bare CHicken.". And so that was the, uh, it was a, it was, a family owned company that we acquired. They were, it was important to them that family continues to own and operate. And we own that for about 3 years until which time we sold it to our largest customer, which was JBS or their poultry business, of course, is Pilgrim's Pride. Um, and, uh, you know, Coming along, uh, while I was at the mash offs, you know, we, we did, uh, one of the things I have a real interest in is genetic improvement. And, uh, you know, I feel very strongly that, uh, you know, an animal business is only as good as the animal. And so, from a profitability point of view, it all starts with the genetic potential of the animal, and then our job as animal husbandry folks is just to, you know, create as good, a possible environment through our management to realize its potential. And so, we, we did develop custom, uh, lines of, of animals, uh, specific for our system and what our overall endpoint objective was in terms of carcass merit. And that was a part of the process as well. So I, I, I, you know, had the opportunity to, to, to be involved in a lot of different things. Throughout the 20, uh, 21 years that I was at the mash offs, uh, ultimately stepped away, uh, uh, retirement. If you will, we can talk a little bit about what evolved. I'm not retirement. Doesn't sound like what I do every day, but, it was, bittersweet, as you can imagine, to step away from a business that, you know, I've, the Mashoffs are family to me and will continue to be at the same point in time. Um, my wife and I have a passionate interest, as you now know, in the beef cattle arena. And I'll maybe step back along the time course and say there was really two factors that got me involved and interested in beef. Um, Uh, One was, uh, my, my children and their 4 H projects and, and, uh, you've probably heard me say that it was important to Kimberly and I that we create a work camp for kids. And so we've, we've, uh, we've certainly done that. It's become a work camp for parents too I found out. But, um, it's, uh, we, we, we started that project, uh, just purely with the show end of things. And then as I. got into both pork and poultry as I mentioned. At that same time, I had a thought that perhaps we needed to be, uh, we really started to see ourselves at the Mashoffs as a protein company, and uh, I thought, you know. Maybe I should go ahead and start to think about creating the beef protein. So I, I began an investment thesis in beef genetics and started to build a system here in Southern Illinois to produce beef and, and it's become a real passion and, and, you know, I've really found the industry has really just become a pursuit of mine to be completely honest. But that's kind of the, the two point origin there, you know, raising kids and I just don't think there's a better way to do it than with beef. With animal projects and with animals as a part of, and now, you know, building the business has sort of become what we're about as a family. long, windy answer to a very simple question.
matt_2_10-14-2024_120415:No, it's well, there's no such thing as a simple question on this podcast, because the folks I like to get on here, like yourself have a lot of different experiences and, everybody has gotten to today via a different route. And I think we when we hear those stories and, and explanations of why we think like we do or act like we do or react like we do. I think it helps us all. So let's stick for right now. And I want to get into your beef venture but during that 20 or 21 year period, you can even tack on your work in grad school, you worked a lot with data. And the outcomes that came from that analysis. And you also said that you appreciated being able to put some practical application and see that actually come into effect as well. What surprised you most from what you saw in the data and then also flip over to, did that translate to, or was there something different from the boots on the ground logistical standpoint that, that you really learned and surprised you during that time of, of seeing it put into practical application?
bradley_2_10-14-2024_120415:Yeah, that's a really good question, Matt. maybe set this up a little bit. At the time, this is, you know, late 90s, the university farms were, were becoming inadequate, right? So, I'm going to take you back to a time the pig industry, uh, was, was really struggling. In, in the early days of vertical integration and scaling, right? So we were, that particular time, we were, you know, 1, 200 sow farms that were essentially, single site production, you know, those were the big ones, right? The 1, 200 sow farms that were finishing animals all the way through then on a single site, and, we could spend an entire Conversation on pig disease. I won't do that, but just suffice it to say that we learned we needed to get to multiple site production. And as we went to multiple site production, which is, you know, sows on one farm. Weaner pigs or nursery age pigs on another and then finishers on another, you know, you had to get to a certain size and scope to make those fixed costs, leverageable, et cetera. And so, as we did that, you know, the economies of scale, the industry started to vertically integrate, apply specialization and all those things that we know, um, you know, are part of, of that, scaling, if you will, economies of scale model, the types of questions you start to get as an industry scales were no longer answerable in small scale university farms, or at least there was a missing step in terms of validating what we were discovering in university setting. And, and so I just feel very fortunate that, you know, that was. You know, that was where I became very passionate and intrigued. And we were in the state of Illinois, there was funds that are now no longer available, but the first year I was in graduate school, they were called CFAR fund. And those funds were targeting applied research. And so I had, uh, you know, just a passionate, again, I, I'm a farm kid. What, what matters is, did the farm get better? And so, here I'm in graduate school and I'm trying to work out, you know, what are the researchable questions? And most important before we got to the questions is what could I do to get the farm better? And I had the opportunity to go after CFAR dollars to fund my master's and that's where we,, found the source of funding and I wanted to, again, take the questions to where, they needed answered, which was in the commercial settings. Uh, the university farms were not the same farms that the industry was constructing at the time. And so, while I did a lot of work, don't get me wrong, during my, my advanced degree programs at the university farms, sort of basic for an applied guy, the majority of the work that, that, you know, I've, I've done, Published in journals would have been done in the commercial sector and at large scale. So, for example, a typical wean to finish trial, um, that would have looked at, let's say, feeder space allocation and the university environment would have involved, you know, 80 or 90 pigs on a good day. And, uh, you know, in a commercial context that I was doing, I worked with United Animal Health in Sheridan Indiana. We use their facilities. Of course, I've already mentioned the Mashoffs. Um, I was. you know, keen to duplicate, which starts to get at the question that you asked. I wanted to see repeatability of results. Of course, any good scientist is looking not only to answer the question, but see that the answer is repeated. Um, and, um, and so we, you know, did that at scale and in multiple environments that started to begin to validate the, you know, designs of facilities, the genetic potential of the animals at that time. Again, when you're, when you're looking at the genetic potential of animals in a, in a perfect environment, you get one answer. And when you look at those animals under the realities of the environment they're growing in, you get another. And so, you know, I just became really interested in what is that model for research, getting answers to the applied producer. What does that need to look like in the long term? And I think your 2nd question was around, you know, what were some of the things I learned and challenges I had is sort of what I heard and, you know, The first is to get that data is hard. Um, and, and so this, at the time, I couldn't do it today, but at the time, there was a lot of, uh, you know, 3. 30, 4 in the morning departures to get, two and a half hours to Central Indiana weekly, uh, to get serial weights on pigs in a commercial setting or down to Casey, Illinois, which is about an hour and a half. to get these commercial weights. I mean, physically get the animals. We had to design our own scale. Nobody believe it or not. Sounds crazy. But, we hadn't, you know, engineered pen scales. They were all individual animal scales. And of course that was, you know, when you start talking about thousands of animals, I talked about the 80 or 90 versus, you know, I would have trials that usually had about 2000 pigs on them individually. And so, you know, to get good serial weight, so I could, you know, Model curves and things like that, you know, took multiple wings. And so we actually cut sections of the floor out. I learned how to cut slats, you know, and put load cells and in an actual pin in the barn, um, and design and above hanging, uh, you know, I beam scale, basically, um, in those commercial settings. So. Uh, you know, today I think about where we are with technology and, you know, of course, I was still writing, weights on a sheet of paper, but, but, you know, now with wireless technology and just the pace at which technologies come and it becomes easier, but it, Really taught me that a you can, I mean, you can overcome any challenge that's out there. Um, you know, you've got to be resilient, persistent, creative, you know, those data won't come to you. but, but you can go get the data. And, uh, but, you know, it's, it's, it's not, it's not. It's not easy, and it definitely, definitely taught me that, but I remember at the time people, you know, a lot of naysayers thinking that was unsustainable, um, the way we, we went about that, and we, we built the business model out of it, not in the way that the university made money, but in the way that we put, you know, a student team together, um, you know, worked through the logistics and, and figured out a sustainable way to do it and, and still made it to class most of the time.
matt_2_10-14-2024_120415:I've spoken like a, a true college kid with three, three separate degrees. So translate some of that over to the beef industry. And there are so many things to unpack. I mean, your comment of naysayers that say these things can't be done in terms of scalability and recording data and actually getting something that's repeatable and meaningful. We see the same things, hear the same things, whether it be genetic evaluation or, for goodness sake, animal identification in the beef industry, you know, these things can't be done. Did the hog community go through some of the same questions and arrival at answers and breaking paradigms that you see the beef industry doing today, or is it so totally different because of size and time to finish and things like that, that they're not even comparable.
bradley_2_10-14-2024_120415:Oh, Matt, I think you know, they're, they're more comparable than they're, in comparable, in, in my opinion. with that said, I, I see the hurdles, you know, there, there are many more hurdles and they're certainly taller, you know, as I think about running the beef race versus the pork race. But. But, but the industries are more comparable than not. It is a general statement. And, and, and again, I want to let you steer this conversation where it needs to go. I can wander all over with this because of my passions for both. You know, I've spent a lot of time in the last year. I've been asked in a couple of different instances to compare now that I'm full time and in beef and, um, you know, what, what are the lessons I've taken away from pigs and, you know, and conversely, what can, pigs learn from beef? I just, just actually had a meeting back within the pork industry a week ago, talk a little bit about how I think, you know, the beef industry is just so consumer centric relative to a, you know, commodity cost of production focus in the pork industry is, from that point of view. But but but your question was, you know, entirely about, more to the. Production side of things. And I would just say that my biggest point of surprise, maybe I'll start there. When I compare the two industries around this measurement piece, it's been really hard to believe it's been a big adjustment how little is actually measured in the beef industry. So, you know, managerial accountant is, is almost a science in the pork industry and for certain is in the poultry industry. Thank you. And when you get into the beef industry, and, and if you're like me and you're really interested in, in, in how do you, you know, use marginal economic values to, you know, select animals in, in a way that, that drives the system, um, You know, that's really important stuff. And it just doesn't seem to exist, at least in volume and across environments. and and that's been the biggest adjustment, um, especially when you think about the level of capital and overall financial investment in the sector, which has been wildly surprising to me, and I'm still adjusting to it. So I would just start there.
matt_2_10-14-2024_120415:Well, before you go to the next one, why do you think that is? Because I think that is an important piece. To discuss here in the beef industry. Why, why don't cowboys use managerial accounting?
bradley_2_10-14-2024_120415:Yeah, I suspect there's a variety of, Okay. Um, factors involved there. And certainly I, you know, certainly there, you know, tremendous business people in the beef industry, um, without question. So I, you know I,, want to be careful, you know, in, in articulating what, what I'm thinking here, but, when, when you just look at the statistics in the beef industry, where what 80 percent of cows are in, in 40 cow herds or less. There's certainly a number of those folks, um, near as I can tell from my experience that, that aren't necessarily looking to make a business out of it. And I think, you know, one of the things that was a challenge for me as a, you know, strategic leader in the pork industry was how to incentivize, I. T. you know, information services, uh, how to incentivize companies to come in to a market that, you know, Actually, you know, you could quantify pretty well, uh, to develop accounting software and and and grow people with the competencies to utilize it. And I would say we were largely unsuccessful there. Yeah, there's still while there's good managerial accounting, they're still not. 1 enterprise resource management software that that's the perfect solution for anyone. And it's simply because I think it's a challenge ag has, you know, to have sent that type of an investment. You know, we're generally fragmented and there's just not enough return on investment for a company to, to bet on us. And so the point of going back to the sort of fragmented beef industry, small farms, some of which are not operated as a business, many that are, um, it's just difficult to incent. The type of investment needed, um, you know, to, to, to build those platforms. And I mean, we'd see, at least I do even, even just in simple production accounting, um, you know, they're, they're good software platforms, but I know it's, you know, just not a lot of options, um, which, which makes sense. So, I think, you know, in summary, I think there's a lot of factors, but without question, there is definitely a lot of folks that own beef cows that don't necessarily view it as a business, um, and I, you know, while I think that's okay, I think that detracts from those of us that are, you know, trying to, you know, make a business out of it in the respect that I actually believe the business principles are what enable it to be sustainable. Talk a lot about sustainability, um, but I think when you view something as a business, you take on responsibility, for the resources under your leadership and you want to do that in such a way that, you know, business principles are applied.
matt_2_10-14-2024_120415:You know, as you mentioned, sustainability, and I think from a financial standpoint is what you're talking about. Business sustainability., Would it not behoove us to look at some ways to arm our industry, its participants, especially from the cow calf and what I call the grass farmer and rancher level. up, we always seem to talk about the revenue side and how are we going to get more out of these cattle? Who's, how are we going to get that feed yard to pay us what we deserve instead of saying. Could somebody come in here and help us run this business and cut our costs without compromising production or without compromising whatever the things were paid for? We rarely in beef industry circles talk about that. We want drought relief. We want to break up the big four packers. We want to, you know, it's all from that income and revenue side and never do I hear a discussion at an industry meeting. I shouldn't say never, but rarely. Do I hear somebody sitting down and saying, you know what, if we did a better job of figuring out what things make us the most money, we could do more of those things and quit spending money on XYZ equipment or whatever we think we need to, pork folks find that out sooner? And if so, why, and, and what can or should, or do we need to do in the beef industry to kind of go down that road?
bradley_2_10-14-2024_120415:You bring sort of two thoughts to mind. First, Matt is, I think, you know, we talked about the lack of measurement that exists in the beef industry. That's my biggest surprise. And then you Start to think about how difficult that measurement is, not only in terms of the inability to attract investment, but just the physical reality of, of animals, their spatial location, their, their time of production, like I said, number of factors. It's hard. I want to say that up front. It's extremely difficult relative to the other species I've been involved with. I think technology today, though, is a huge enabler. And so, obviously, I'm an enormous pro and advocate for this. But you mentioned something I think we just have to say out loud, and that is, you know, why do we spend so much time looking at the revenue side of the P& L? It's because our, you know, our, our customers do it for us, right? That's what we get back. We get, you know, we get these kill sheets and the data come back to us. and, and so we tend to make a lot of business decisions around the revenue line. Um, and without question, getting to our cost structures are, are difficult, but, you know, it was difficult in pork and one imagines poultry as well. I'm a huge Peter Drucker fan, you know, if you don't measure it, you're not managing it. And so that's a huge opportunity that we both know is there. there are some data, but I think, you know, the more benchmarking, one of the entities in, in the beef industry that I really respect, I've not seen in, in, in the other industry, certainly not in the way that it performs was CattleFax. I'm, I'm just continuing to be impressed with. I think you had Randy on here before and, um, there's just, how do we, you know, scale that and enable and incent, uh, more participation and more folks involved there. I don't have answers to that. I have a few ideas. but. Anyway, I guess all that is to simply say to you that, that, I think, uh, you know, it's easy to account for the revenue side. Cost side is more difficult, and I think we need to make more conscious efforts because, you know, to me, environmental management is just one aspect of sustainability. You've mentioned there are several, um, but, but again, Thank you. It's in our best interest to manage all aspects. I mean, we're going to have to, our consumers are very clearly telling us they're interested in all aspects of our business, but particularly those that, that, that impact their world. And today it's, it's air, water, and other resources that they're more conscious than they've ever been. And so. To me, as, as an industry, we're playing behind the eight ball and and we've got to start to think, you know, not only about how do we get our cost structures and, and, and managerial accounting around those things that are tangible, um, that we write checks for every day, but these other factors that are in our best interest, and, and some harder to measure than others, uh, but, but all, I think will be important, to us in the long term. And again, I, I, I think, we may be accounting for environmental matters, uh, before we're accounting for, you know, cost matters today, uh, simply again, because our, our customers are demanding that in terms of scope 3 admissions reporting. They're, they're going to be forced. We're going to be, I think, you know, sooner rather than later. Uh, forced not only to tell them, you know, what genetics or how long they've been on feed, but, but, you know, a whole lot more, uh, about what resources, uh, from an air and water point of view have gone into them. Carbon just being one
matt_2_10-14-2024_120415:I think especially as we hear talk about carbon credits and being paid for doing quote, unquote, the right thing. I have some heartburn about the whole carbon credit model. But, uh, regardless, yeah, that is and has been for decades, centuries. that's been a cattleman's mantra. I'll do it when you pay me to do it, not I'll do it when I can figure out that I can save a bunch of money. And yet, I mean, we're all tight wads. We don't want to spend money on anything. And that's what we use as the excuse, even when we could spend a little money on certain things. genetics, mineral program, you know, whatever the case may be and make more. We still say, yeah, I just can't, I can't afford to pay that. Um, why? Because we're not figuring out what we make off of it. And I think that's a challenge. So you mentioned that one of your biggest surprises with it was the lack of data collected in the beef industry, specifically the
bradley_2_10-14-2024_120415:could I stop you for just say, I want one thing I compelled to say real quick to you there is, you know, I've been an avid listener of this podcast for, for the reason that you just mentioned there, there, is. There is a culture. I mean, I don't know the history like you were just describing, you know, the history, historical perspective of the cattlemen, you know, none of that, you know, that's new to me, right? It's not, not a world I've been in, you know, been, been fully investing here over a decade, but, but I'm, I'm a newcomer to this. There is definitely a cultural difference. Matt, that's the only thing I want to stop and tell you. There's an enormous cultural difference, pork and poultry, having been in both industries, pretty similar cultures, different but similar. Um, there's a very different culture. I don't have any appreciation for the history of it as you, you, you probably can understand. Um, but, but, It is interesting. I would say it feels much like you described it. I don't know the basis for it. It's sort of intuitive, you know, you just learn to manage your cost. I mean, now, on the flip side, I would tell you we weren't nearly as conscious around our consumers. And that's one of the reasons I'm here. That's exciting. I think that's a fresh way to think. And, and that's why I'm, I'm in the beef industry today. But, but boy, I just can't imagine doing it without focusing on cost. I just think it's, The responsible thing to do.
matt_2_10-14-2024_120415:Yeah. And that's, that's why I have you on here is because I think we can learn a lot from each other in other industries and, uh, we can learn some of what worked and we can learn a lot of what didn't, from both. Beef to pork and pork to beef. You and I were at a meeting a few weeks ago in Kansas city where, and I will not remember the guy's name from Brazil, a geneticist in the hog side of things. And he asked the group a question. What's the biggest difference between, boars and bulls. None of us got the answer right. You know, when we said one's a monogastric, the other's a ruminant, et cetera, et cetera. And finally, you remember what he said? He said, in the pork industry, we don't name our boars.
bradley_2_10-14-2024_120415:That's right. They're numbered.
matt_2_10-14-2024_120415:They are by a number and they mean nothing to us emotionally. And so if they do the job, We keep using them and we keep daughters out of them and we, or we put them into a terminal sire line or whatever the case may be, but if they don't work, even if we thought they should be the next savior of the pork industry. They're gone, and we go on to the next one, and we, we don't get married to them, and in the beef industry, we not only name our bulls, we take pictures of them and videos of them, and some of us name our cows even, and, and, uh, it's harder to part with them, or it's harder to make judgments based off of the data when you do that. And I think he said a lot when he said that, um, I maybe that didn't hit you as hard as it did me, but I'm like, there it is right there in front of our faces. And we didn't realize the reason that we're so different. We name our bulls.
bradley_2_10-14-2024_120415:you know, I would just say overall there's a lot of, uh, you know, like I said, there's, that's why I wanted to stop you. I didn't mean to rudely interrupt you, but just say there. There's cultural differences that are pretty sizable that, you know, I didn't expect. I mean, you know, you expect something, right? I mean, I, I, I didn't own, you know, set of cowboy boots before I got into, so you knew there were going to be some cultural changes. Um, but, but it's striking. it's very, very striking. In general, right. The. The pig guys, um, make no decisions without measurement. Very little, you know, gut and intuition. it's the classic measure twice cut once, um, and, and in the beef industry, there, there's., You know, but less entrepreneurship. Obviously, there's some tremendous entrepreneurs in the pork industry, and it goes without saying. I mean, these guys that took a lot of risk but, you know, in the beef industry, there's a tremendous amount of creativity and entrepreneurship. but, you know, it's a lot of decisions from gut intuition. Um, the data doesn't seem to be valued at the same level as, as I see in the other industries. Again, wildly competitive industries, too. That's the big difference, right? I mean, we all know the differences in the industry. I mean, this is, you know, the, you know, the beef industry seems to be more largely out of, you know, land ownership. There, there are other reasons, too, of course, but in general, that's one of the things I'm, I'm recognizing you've got, you know, land owners and thence there are cows, versus in, in the pig industry, you know, people raise pigs to buy land, um, not the other way around. And, and so that's, you know, when you talk about origins and the history of cowboys, if you will, that, that, that seems to be, you know, the fundamental difference, if I were to spill it down into one thing. I tell people from time to time, there's just not a lot of sex appeal to owning pigs. That's the biggest change that,
matt_2_10-14-2024_120415:Well, along those lines, I think again, same meeting different, uh, well, you were the speaker and you use something, I think that, uh, maybe Alan Miller had shared with you, that. Sometimes funds, certain aspects of the beef industry in some circles. Um, and I think, did he call it irrational capital?
bradley_2_10-14-2024_120415:Yeah, that was, so Alan told me, I'll tell you a quick, quick history on that. You know, Alan and I were in graduate school together, so he was on the first floor. And so that's, maybe that's part of, you know, part of why I'm now in the beef industry. You know, the beef guys had the first floor. Us swine guys were on Second floor, we had to climb the stairs. So I think there was some level of of envy around that for, you know, the nine years. But so Alan, I go way back and when I consult with Alan, you know, again, having a great friendship through time, I talked to I think I'm going to. I think I'm going to scale up I think I want to get into production cows, you know, and you know, why would you do that? And he, of course, uh, when I talk about the lack of measurement, one of the things I, a lot of things I respect about Alan, one of the things, you know, during his graduate career, he ran the SPA program. in the state of Illinois. So, I mean, he was out collecting data. And, and so, we had this discussion. He said, Bradley says, you're not, you know, you're just going to go crazy in the beef industry. He says, it's just, you're, you're going to pull your hair out. And, uh, I said, oh, no, these guys have, you know, huge investments. You can't tell me they're not measuring things. You know, these, these, you know, people that own cows, you know, these are These are huge investors. And so I frequently have to go back and confess, you know, and admit that he was right about that. I said, you know, I can't be right, Alan. But, and so, honestly, that that term, you know, it took me a while, but the last I use that term. Once I was asked to come back to the pig industry, I call it my swan song in July and, you know, that was basically the message I brought to them. I said, you know, the pig industry's had challenges. It frankly, it overbuilt itself. It's drove, as a result, supplies drove prices down and so, you know, part of what I offered him was, you still at least have You know, rational capital over, you know, my side of the fence now, on the beef side, there's a lot of irrational capital. So that's, uh, I didn't know, honestly, uh, 2 weeks ago when, when I made that presentation to the, to the conference, I thought, you know, a number of you guys might find me in the back of the room and lynch me after telling me you had irrational capital.
matt_2_10-14-2024_120415:Well, it's there and admittedly, I think for the most part, the folks that listen to this podcast are probably less guilty of that than some of us. And, and especially those of us that have had to buy in a 4 H or a. Junior Angus show heifer or whatever the case may be. There's all sorts of different levels of irrational capital in the beef industry. And luckily most of the guys and gals listen to this one are probably a little better than average in that regard, but. It's there. I mean, even when I, I'd never thought about the fact, as you said, that a lot of us in the beef industry, especially the cow calf industry have cows because we owned land and you flip that over to the pork industry where they have land if they were successful enough to actually make a profit on the hogs. And, uh, that's. Exactly backwards from us, or we're exactly backwards from that. Besides the lack of consumer focus on the hog side and, and the deterioration in quality, what are some other things that they could learn from us? as you talk to those folks, what are we doing well in the beef industry? Cause I think sometimes we don't celebrate our successes. What, What have we got going for us that we want to make sure that we don't lose?
bradley_2_10-14-2024_120415:Oh, that's a great question, man. I honestly, you know, there's a reason I'm here and dedicating 100 percent of my time now. And, you know, I, I'm, I'm bullish. I'm, I'm extremely bullish the industry. I see, you know, I see a lot of changes. likely, um, simply as a function of our success. And, and, and the reason I have that frame of reference is that, you know, I'll take you kind of back through my, you know, 40 year history in the pig industry. I, I saw it go from, mortgage lifter status in the eighties, helped folks get through farm crisis on the basis of US genetics, to, You know, 90s represented a significant importation in European genetics that, that took us, uh, to, you know, a much leaner and drove feed conversion. And we then became the low cost producer on the globe of, of pork. And, if I take you one half step back in that piece of the history, it was in the 80s that the pork industry, out of health concerns, and beef, of course, faced the same thing at the time, but out of health concerns, the pork industry, developed what is today the third most recognizable advertising campaign in history, right?"The other white meat." And, and so we aligned ourselves to chicken on the basis of, you know, health, um, which was a strong position for us at the time. and frankly, again, we became really good at cost production because we aligned ourselves to chicken. We had to compete with them and, and we, defined a set of rules which include, included, you know, integration and, and again, their business models and, and, uh, so forth. Right. And so, um, where, where that got them to is, you know, here in, in, an industry that, that grew with wild amounts of success. you know, I know in one of the presentations, I think you, you and I were part of, I showed you know what the return on investment and swine assets were. I mean it was it's impressive the level of success the industry has had. With all that said, when I look back, at least in the time that I was involved, we kind of forgot to ask the consumer What it was they were really looking for and clearly it's been chicken. Um, you know, there isn't a protein that's had more demand, from a per capita consumption point of view, but, we're not in the pig industry going to compete with chicken. And, uh, consequently, um, we, we've struggled. And, and now, you know, pork is, is, is chicken. from a consumer preference point of view. And obviously, that brings me to the real answer to your question. What, what's beef got going for it? In the main, you know, culturally. We really have our eye on the consumer. no matter where I go, what meeting there is a certain, pride and focus on the quality of the product we're producing. And I know we, you know, again, I wasn't a part of it, but in the early nineties, I was actually at the university. I remember, some of the meat quality, some of that 91 beef. Quality audit, research at the universities. There are several universities involved and Illinois is one of them. And, and so I know, it's not been a perfect track record, but it's not been for anybody. But where we are as a beef industry today is so fun. I, I, again, credit to the tremendous leadership this industry has had, you know, long before I was a part of it. and so that's the number one thing that excites me about the beef industry is there is a certain prideful amount of focus. And if I were to just go back to the pig industry for a split second, having told you the history that the punchline I left out is that now, That while we were so good at cost production and, and, you know, global dominance for a period of time in terms of cost, it not only lost, focus on the consumer, but, but, uh, really had the fundamental belief that if we produce it, somebody will eat it. And if we produce it cheap, cheapest, you know, will be wildly successful. And that, that's just not the thesis that has played out. And, and so now as they work forward in terms of a strategy and, and how they bring pork back to relevancy, that's the challenge in front of the industry. Um, whereas beef is so relevant, You know, it's just exciting to be a part of. I think, beyond the fact that, you know, we have a culture of consumer centricity, we also, have an industry that, not to open up the box of carbon again, but, but I think, you know, in time, we'll be able to demonstrate. our utility. and so I, you know, I, I think that's a, you know, back on us to continue to do the research and provide the measurement and demonstrate that. I think without question we will. that excites me. I mentioned the pig industry genetic piece simply because one of the things that really excites me is the genetic potential. One of the, one of the, the real, passions I have is I think there's so much genetic potential, particularly for growth, efficiency, while providing quality, that I think, that is all out there for us. I think we don't capture the genetic potential of our animals today from a growth and efficiency point of view. With all that said, you and I have had numerous discussions. I think, you know, that is a double edged sword. Today's genetic toolkit is so good that it, it will take you where you're going. The concerns are, you know, the things that you don't measure. some of those things are going with it and so you and I've talked to numerous times and in my, you know, presentation, I am concerned about the mother cow, um, and in the absence of measurement or while we do measure some things, relatively incomplete today, but I'll always defend what we are doing, because, doing something is better than doing nothing. Even, even if it is wrong, we'll learn from that. And, and so, you know, I think we're, way beyond where we were, but we're not yet to where we need to be, uh, to, to measure, to measure, uh, you know, that cow portion of our, our equation. and so we're going to learn quickly, I think, from, you know, beef on dairy, as we think about, how we produce a really consistent, high quality, and at a, competitive cost point, um, that model will inform those of us, um, you know, myself included, that, that own the mother cow.
matt_2_10-14-2024_120415:Yeah, I think that's exciting. And anybody that's listened to very many of these podcasts know how dedicated I am to that end and collecting as much data as we can on the characterizing. quantify the maternal influence and the cow and find the ones that are doing the job. And from a managerial accounting and cost standpoint, that's even the carbon capture standpoint, that's where it's going to be at. That's where I think we have immense potential, and I'm excited about some of the genetic work, even management work and technology that's being done in that arena. So I can't have a hog guy on this conversation. Without at least asking, and you've mentioned it a couple times, two words that strike fear into every red blooded cattleman, and that is vertical integration. as we look over at the beef industry. Whether it be today's model of how cows are generally on open range, big tracts of land, relatively speaking, weaned calves that then go into some kind of growing, stocking phase, and then eventually end up at the feed yard and in more of a confined type of situation. A, do you see the ownership of these segments becoming more aligned or integrated? And B, do you see a change from the way we've run cows specifically out on grass into more of a confined cow feeding type of scenario, which I know in some areas where they're close to a ethanol plant or whatever the case may be, may be happening more, if and when that occurs, do we see more vertical integration on the beef side of things?
bradley_2_10-14-2024_120415:Well, that's, that's a, that's a big question. I'll, I'll, I'll maybe, you know, size it this, this way. so when I think about from a pig production point of view, you know, vertical integration, I'm overly simplifying, but, generally what got us there is the economies of scale, certainly, the value of, of coordination. and the reason I, I want to segment it and, challenge you to, Think about it in two ways, at least from my lens, there's the economies of scale that, that, that is there. And then there's the, that, that shared, uh, coordination piece that, that both are necessary as much, I think, from a risk management point of view as anything. And, and so I think, from an economies of scale point of view, I would say if you, if you look at pork and poultry today, and certainly more pork than poultry, but when you parse the data back of the pork industry, you're going to find that the largest operations are not the most efficient and maybe even the most effective. So there's a dis economies of scale that we've yet to overcome in the pork industry. And, Again, I'm sort of embarrassingly, you know, again, coming outta college, I, I really wanted to see a model that was focused on the animal scale and be successful in this notion of feeding the world. And, and I would have to admit that I don't, you know, know that we, we, we've figured it out. What I have learned in, in terms of the coordin and, and the other thing I would say about the coordination, I would say the same is, is true there that, um. You know, what I did, uh, you know, about a decade ago, at the end of all that grove, we actually reorganized the business to smaller business models within the macro business, in order for us to, to, to, you know, readjust those lack of economies of scale. and while that worked to a certain point, I'll, I'll build into this, what I said earlier about entrepreneurship, what we've never overcome yet. is the magic that occurs within a business when, when the individual that owns it can generally touch the operating aspects in particular, the animal. And I think back to, uh, uh, a dairy study that, that showed this very clearly, where he looked at three herds of dairy cattle and, you know, with three different levels of production. And when you change the farm manager. irrespective of the system, The dairy would respond to that level of manager. And I think that's, the challenge that remains in front of us, um, you know, in, inside of all of animal agriculture. And it's why I continue to be, really bullish the beef industry back to the frame of your question. Um, I, I do think there, there will be, and I think candidly should be more coordination. I mean, one of the reasons I appreciate I learned from you in this podcast. I know you, you share the same views, but at the end of the day, it's about., you know, managing risk and in a macro sense for the consumer and the food supply. and and I think, you know, there is value that comes with that coordination. The question is, and I think COVID is, is a pleasant reminder of this question and there are other examples, but at what scale should society, support putting these systems together? I think the principle of entrepreneurship, uh, but there will be, some factored Depending on the segment that enables optimum. And of course, it'll be a function of the competency level of the entrepreneur will ultimately be the defining moment. but there are dis economies of scale. I'm convicted of that. And that's the message I would leave as I speak. You know, with your around that question, I, I don't think we know yet how to overcome those. And, uh, I think, you know, the beef industry with, with the capital intensity, uh, the asset nature of the industry, um, it will be incredibly challenging. With all that said, I do think we're going to see, more dry lotting of cattle as well as a system. And candidly Matt, you know, about half of my cows are in, in, in confined production. Um, that's one of the things that, that I've been passionately pursuing over the last decade is, is the potential for confinement based cow systems versus pasture based environments. And so that is, you know, Again, both systems at this point, I'm about eight years in where I've been, you know, taking, you know, SIB. Embryo mates to different environments and from both the genetic improvement point of view as well as economic thesis. both systems in my determination, um, are, are equally effective and, and both have their laundry list of problems that, I'm not, I'm not bright enough to solve yet on my own for sure. you know, I, I do think both systems. This is my read at the moment. Um, you know, I, I got into it sort of bias thinking, you know, that, you know, confinement intensive based system, would be, uh, you know, would have an edge, particularly in my geography. But I'm not, you know, I think there's a lot more to learn yet.
matt_2_10-14-2024_120415:Well, I think it will change a bunch and it has and we'll continue so and I don't think there's any arguing that through the decades we've seen that we've seen those changes and we'll continue. I probably should have had you start out with this, but give us a feel for your beef operation today. I know you touched on it a little bit with some confined cow feeding and but start to finish, kind of give us where you are today and where you see that going here in the, in the near future.
bradley_2_10-14-2024_120415:Yeah, Matt. So I, I, um, again, passion for the beef starts with this notion of the beef industry focused on the consumer. And so I started there, you know, again, looking back, trying, you know, my, my, my interest in sort of a second career, if you will, in the beef after a 21 year career in the pork industry is simply that. Try and come at it and applying all the lessons learned and basically try not to make the same mistakes twice. And so, this time around, I've started with, you know, what is the consumer looking, you know, to purchase and who is my consumer and try to define that and, and it, it sort of by default started at a small scale. Um, you know, my, uh, my system starts with, With my wife's friends, my wife and I called it soccer mom beef. We had small kids at the time we decided to get into this. And so, you know, it's a product that, from a spec point of view, we focus on trying to create a, Mid to high choice product, uh, at a little bit lighter weight because of cut size and what our consumer, it's a consumer direct beef business. That's what we're, you know, endeavoring to do. Uh, we do have a little bit of excess production that goes to commercial plants that we'll add some additional weight to, uh, but the point I'm trying to make is the production system starts there and then it, it sort of backwards, engineers itself, um, to genetics. We've got a registered Angus herd. that serves as the foundation, um, and, and genetic base for, for what we're doing. Um, and, uh, then we've built the business on partnerships and again, not contract partnerships in the way that pork and poultry, have thought about it. Um, but, but truly trying to drive it from an entrepreneur point of view. And, and so, we own cows. Uh, and, and under our management and direct care, um, we produced all the heifers and, and, and bulls under our management. A lot of the cows will go out under lease. we do have some by product, uh, genetics, if you will, some, some bulls and heifers that don't go back into our own system that we do sell them and those customers have allowed us to grow. Um, our focus is, uh, primarily in, in Southern Illinois and, the, uh, eastern half of Missouri, but my wife is from Western Illinois and, and we have a production hub up there as well of, of producers and, and all those, calves, uh, from produced, produced from, from those general geographies come back and get finished in Southern Illinois. so we, we've got to finish those cattle against, uh, uh, St. Louis River Basis corn market, uh, so we start with one foot under, and so we've had to put a lot of emphasis and on, on feed conversion and, and so we've done some, you know, dry matter, Uh, feed intake work is a part of what we've done and as well as selection, for the composition of the growth. And I've done some cereal carcass growth work, uh, to get at nutrient requirements. And we've got a nutrition program then in terms of how we're focused that, that looks at, uh, You know, growing the animals along a very lean and environmental friendly footprint where carbon is something we continue to work and try and understand what our model does, but at the end of the day, we finish the process with a young couple that does all the custom cutlery for our consumer direct beef business. We leverage. Uh, harvest facilities here, before we send the carcasses out to Salt String, which is our custom, cutlery business. again, all built on partnerships, all leveraging the entrepreneur, uh, Um, we really see ourselves as facilitating, the process, backwards engineering it from that consumer all the way back. And from our point of view, everybody has to win. Um, and so we're constantly, at least, you know, from my lens, I'm constantly, Focused on what are the mechanisms within that supply chain, all those partners that I just described, how do we get to an appropriate risk adjusted rate of return? Um, and of course, those risks are constantly changing and about and evolving and, but, but I think, you know, that's where, you know, we've got to have. You know, mechanisms in place, uh, that, that enable, you know, lenders to get comfortable, but at the same point in time, flexible enough, to evolve, uh, with the dynamics of, you know, our business environment. And, uh, it's tough, man. It's, it's really, you know, I would say I'm just trying to apply a different set of principles, and trying to apply the lessons learned from the pork industry and putting this business together in such a way, um, you know, that it can sustain and, and that means it needs to compete. It's not always going to be, you know, the best from a cost point of view, and it's not always going to be the best from a revenue point of view, but, but, you know, if you look at it through a long period of time, my goal is, to get a position to, to compete and continue to, to grow its appeal for the consumer.
matt_2_10-14-2024_120415:So truly from genetics all the way to To direct to consumer sales, truly a vertically integrated, system under your management and, care. And, and, I think sometimes we think of vertical integration as being. Or being JBS that's owning everything from their point in the packing plant back. And, and I think that's maybe a misinterpretation that a lot of us cattlemen have in that respect, but, you know, just fascinating. I mean, one of the things that you said there, as you backed back away from building this model from what you can. Sell to the consumer, what it is that they're demanding. One of the things you said was that you raise a smaller animal and smaller portion sizes, because that's what they're demanding. And I think it's interesting that in a day and age that we continue to have that discussion and yet see the way that every time that you go through that accounting procedure from a, especially from a revenue focused standpoint, it tells us thanks to grids and increased levels on carcass weight and things like that. Dockages, uh, it tells us make them bigger, continue to make them bigger. And yet you, as you focus on that consumer have said, you know what? No, there's, there's a middle ground that I don't want any rib eyes, any bigger than X, which translates into a carcass weight and therefore a live weight that doesn't push 1800 pounds or whatever the case may be.
bradley_2_10-14-2024_120415:That's a great point, Matt. I mean,, you know, the pig industry is only gone in one direction and that's make it bigger. I suspect, the general direction. Obviously, the beef industry has to this point. I think, you know, for a number of factors, I don't see what it is that will reverse that trend. apart from the consumer voice, which is your point, but that signal will be, will be latent, right? I mean, we, we, by the time we get there, we'll, we'll have already messed it up. And so, the solution, of course, is innovation. And I've been a part of some meetings recently with some insight, some very, you know, wildly large and successful restaurant trains that, that, that, that tell me that the bigger ribeye is not a problem and, but, but it. You know, there's obviously efficiencies in picking up that additional pound on the production side, but there's inefficiencies in taking some of those muscles and putting them to trim and other things. So, I don't know what the answer is, but a little bit to my point at the Imagine Conference, it seems to be bigger than any one, System can can get their arms around it in it in their entirety. Right? So I look at at mine and and you know, I'm certainly coordinated among a number of faucets, but I do have a generally simple customer, not selling a mix. I mean, I to a certain degree I am, but, in the main, you know, I'm selling, several hundred head a year as consumer direct, muscle cut. So I'm, you know, not into, you know, trim, sausage. I mean, basically we sell these animals and so I have a simple system. I just want to say that up front that, you know, having been in the poultry industry and, you know, sell it, you know, all the way from eggshell to, uh, chicken leg, it, it, uh, You've got to really sell that mix, and it's really, really important. And so the simpler you can make that business model, the easier it is. And I'm, I'm pretty simple. So I think one of the takeaways here is you, you raise that point. I don't know what the answer is, but I'm very concerned. Um, on one hand, I will tell you, it makes total sense to keep making them bigger. On the other hand, I'm concerned and in the same way you sort of position, you know, is the consumer at some point going to tell us we got too big and then it's too late answer is likely with the only caveat being that if we innovate that carcass and figure out how it is that we cut it and present it to them as long as we don't hinder what I preach today is the, the, strength of the industry, you know, I think that's the way forward. but. But do we have a plan and a strategy? Do we have adequate leadership? Is that, you know, in our, our Packer partners, where is that occurring? I cannot answer that, but I think, you know, as, as a collective group and, you know, you and I share the belief that we've got to do these things collectively, whether that be with, whatever organization you're a member of, I think you've got to keep a voice and, and be willing to lead. because somebody needs to be working in this space today, in my opinion.
matt_2_10-14-2024_120415:Yeah, I would agree completely. You know, of course we have discussions on the cow side of things that would add another layer of complexity because as we talked with Dave Lalman there a month ago or so, I mean, there are trade offs, not just in consumer acceptance of bigger portion sizes or, Problems with this size of cattle out in the feed yard or whatever the case may be. You've also got their sisters that are back home trying to do what they need to do in some type of a forage based, environment. And, and those, those get to be a challenge as well. But, you know, I think to put a bow on this, you know, You used a word right there, collective, and working collectively. We, we may not like the term vertical integration. We may not like the term vertical coordination, or even cooperation, or any of these other C words. But, the collective mindset, whether it's all under one person or one entities directive for management, or whether it is through conferences like you and I have taken part in the last six months or so, um,, and everybody else has for decades, at least a discussion and sitting down at the same table and saying, okay, from my viewpoint, these are some of my challenges and these are some of the opportunities. Now, what are they from yours? And I think that's, that's why we started this podcast. That's why I encourage people to attend these meetings and discussions because. You know, pulling on those boots and putting on the hat and watching Yellowstone and determining that by gosh, nobody's going to tell me what to do because I'm an independent cattle producer may make this a short lived Business model. in fact, it may drive even faster vertical integration because somebody else that does have a feel for managerial accounting and does have a feel for that sweet spot of scaling and all these different things may end up coming and taking us over if we don't at least have these discussions. And I think that collective mindset is, is the one that probably helps us get where we need to get as we go forward.
bradley_2_10-14-2024_120415:well said, Matt. And the one thing I always try and remind myself of is, you know, in a capitalistic society, I liken it to a veterinarian. All my vet friends, when they listen to this, they'll call me and leave nasty grams in my voicemail. But I've teased them for years about the fact they spend their entire career practicing. And, and one of, you know, Good friend of mine always tells me I reserve the right to get smarter, Bradley. And, and the whole point of, of sharing that analogy is that, you know, I believe in a capitalistic society we're practicing and we're going to make mistakes. And and collectively, we're going to get smarter and at a macro level, what that means for you and I sitting out here in the countryside with our cows as much as we enjoy it. It's the lifestyle. You've alluded to it many times in this podcast. And I agree, um, you know, society, a capitalistic society is going to evolve. And so while we, we may not want to evolve with it, we really don't. Have that choice. And, you know, so, you know, we're going to adapt to it and adapt with it. And, uh, to your very, very well made point, we're faced with two options. We can, you know, sit and watch, or we can, you know, strap on our boots and get involved and be a part of defining it and, you know, Helping it practice to get better. And that's, I think, you know, my thought process. And again, you know, why, why appreciate the opportunity to get to know you and really appreciate this podcast. It's, you know, trying to stay informed and develop views and try and provide leadership to the next generation.
matt_2_10-14-2024_120415:Well, that's all any of us can do. And, and, um, again, that's, that's what keeps us practically ranching is, is through these types of discussions and learning and being enough open to some new ideas, a ways of doing it that we can, we can get better. So, well, Bradley, I really appreciate you being on here. Uh, appreciate all your thought and leadership during your short tenure in the beef industry. But, I've always been told that people who learn something later in life often, become better at it than those of us that have Spent generations doing it. And I think, um, I think you're a testament to that. you know, you've become a student of the beef industry in a relatively short amount of time and, probably school circles around me in a lot of, a lot of different ways. And so I appreciate your perspective, both from your history in the pork industry, but also your, your tenure and your vision, uh, here for the beef circles as well. So thanks for being with us. Keep up the great work and we'll look forward to seeing you again down the road.
bradley_2_10-14-2024_120415:Thanks for the opportunity, Matt.
matt_2_10-14-2024_120415:You bet.
Microphone (Yeti Stereo Microphone)-1:Thanks again for listening to practically ranching brought to you by Dalebanks Angus. As we've said before, if you like what we're doing here, give us a five-star rating, drop us a comment and be sure to follow us, to hear future episodes as soon as they're out. And be sure to join us for our annual sale, november 23rd at the ranch Northwest of Eureka, Kansas. As I mentioned, catalog should be available around November 1st. And if you'd like to receive yours, drop me a note at mattperrier@dalebanks.com or just fill out the form at dalebanks.com online. God bless each of you. We'll talk to you again in two weeks.
