Practically Ranching
Join Matt Perrier as he visits weekly with interesting, thoughtful, entertaining individuals within the beef community. Conversations will inspire curiosity and creativity while maintaining the independent spirit and practical nature for which ranchers are known.
Practically Ranching
#66 - Amy Perrier, So I Married a Rancher
Amy Perrier is a Christian, Physical Therapist, Mother to five children...and a ranch wife.
In this episode, she discusses the challenges, rewards and learnings that she has gathered over the past two+ decades of trying to balance all of these duties.
We talk spousal communication, generational transitions, Retirement (or lack thereof) and community leadership.
Like the one I did with Ava last January, we recorded this on Bluetooth in the truck, so get ready for a little road noise and a few pauses as we navigate the byways of south central Missouri while recording our discussion.
It's real, raw and hopefully relatable for a lot of you.
We pray that you all have a wonderful Christmas and Happy New Year!
Well, Merry Christmas. And thanks for joining us for episode 66 of practically ranching. I'm Matt Perrier. Well, this one is long overdue from several perspectives. First off, it's been a month or nearly a month since our last episode. And I apologize between our bull sale, a couple long weeks, maybe three long weeks of bull deliveries and then a fall AI season and flushing donors and everything else right after that. The pod once again, got pushed to the back burner. So, um, I apologize, but we were back plus after lots of requests over the months or a year, I finally got my wife, Amy to join me on the podcast. I think though that the wait was worthwhile, we recorded it on our anniversary as fitting as that might be. And this was almost a month ago, but I finally got time to edit and post the recording this week. So I'm like the one that I did with Ava last January, we recorded this on Bluetooth in the truck. And so. Prepare yourself for a little road noise. A few long pauses as we navigate the byways of south central, Missouri, and Arkansas, where we were while we were recording this discussion. But I think. If you can tolerate that, I think you'll enjoy the discussion. The discussion actually kind of turned into more of a therapy session, a few points during the podcast. I kind of hoped that we would be the therapists leading this discussion for you. But I think we may have turned into the patients. So I guess that makes you the therapist. I'm sorry. Uh, send me the bill. We talk about spousal communication. Generational transitions retirement or lack thereof for most farmers and ranchers. Community leadership and, and a whole host of other discussion points. And. While this may not have been the most topical conversation. It was real. And it may have been a little bit raw and it may touch a few nerves as we talk about ranchers, psyche and their spouses and their families. And I likely gore everybody's ox at some point in this episode. So if you're a generation older than I am, I'm sorry. If you are a generation younger than I am. I'm sorry. It probably got everybody including myself. Um, you may not learn anything. Especially earth shattering in this next hour. But I hope that we shed some light on the challenges that we all face. As we walk in the back door, the front door at home or in the office. After we've finished the day. At work or doing the real work each day. And we end this podcast with kind of a bit of a self-reflection and hopefully some gratefulness of what it is that we all have. And while I didn't intend this to be a Christmas episode, I think that pausing to find the good and what we see and what we do and what we, those that we have around us. Every day is pretty fitting this time of year. And so, um, maybe it all was part of God's plan that I was this tardy and maybe this will fit as a Christmas episode after all. So the, for the final time this year, I thank you from the bottom of my heart for listening to practically ranching and supporting our family and our ranch and, uh, the tremendous bull sale that we just finished up with. I know a lot of you, um, were there and a lot of you were bidding online and, and again, I just, I can't thank you enough. We were very blessed. So Merry Christmas. Remember that Jesus is the reason for the season. And I pray that he grants you and your family, many blessings this season. And into 2025.
Microphone (Yeti Stereo Microphone)-1:So without further ado. Here's Amy Perrier.
Matt:All right, back by popular demand, live from the Dalebanks delivery rig practically ranching take two or part two. Welcome my wife, Amy Perrier. Round of applause, please from the studio audience. Are you having fun yet? Are you going to talk? These things don't go well. It's just the host speaking.
Amy:Um, yeah, like if I, if my brain can stop criticizing or being critical, trying to decide what you need to say, I can come up with what I want to say.
Matt (2):Is that what you do on every podcast? It's question. Why is my husband asking that question? Doesn't he know what a good host would do?
Matt:I have that effect on people. It happens after about 50 minutes into it, you'll feel comfortable. And the last 15 minutes will go really well. So Where are we and why are we here?
Amy:We're in the Ozarks but Different reason than some people come to the Ozarks, but we're delivering bulls and celebrating our anniversary
Matt:Oh, you know, that's the real reason the bull thing is just a ploy to be able to have a romantic date through four states and a 12 and a half hour road trip And see the beautiful Ozarks of Arkansas Missouri, Northeast, Oklahoma.
Amy:Every girl's dream. Yeah.
Matt:Well it comes right down to it's why you married me. Yeah. Every girl's dream
Amy:But my own still
Matt:a little shocked that Tom and Carolyn Perrier allowed that. Maybe we just didn't ask easier to, uh, beg forgiveness than ask permission. So 23 years.
Amy:Yes.
Matt:Happy the anniversary, honey.
Amy:Thank you. You too.
Matt:What is the secret, Amy? What's the secret to 23 years of happy marriage in today's day and age?
Amy:Well, you would say low expectations. Not
Matt:my, not my
Matt (2):joke or story, but I still love it.
Amy:Yeah.
Matt (2):You wouldn't say low expectations is how you got through it. Come on.
Amy:Occasionally yes. Blind hopefulness.
Matt:Blind optimism and hopefulness. First thing was you didn't know you were coming back to the ranch. At the time you thought we were gonna be a suburban Kansas City yuppie type household, right?
Amy:As a yuppie, but just, yeah. I mean we, we didn't know at the time we were gonna come back. I mean, I'm sure that was always kind of a, in the back of our minds as a possibility, but I figured we'd always end up in the country at some point, at least. Yeah.
Matt:Just thought we'd have 40 acres of country, not
Amy:a few horses and a dog. to take care of. Not five kids in the car. Lots of your other women. I call them your cows to take care of.
Matt:Yes. They all require some care,
Amy:but it's good. I love it. Wouldn't change it.
Matt:So there's lots of ranching couples that might be listening to this, even though the other half better half may not be listening. listening simultaneously. If you were telling a young lady, let's say, who was about to be a ranch wife, if you're about to give her a piece of advice, what would you tell her? So that she too can get the opportunity to celebrate 23 years of marital bliss, driving 79 miles an hour down interstate through the Ozarks with bulls trailing along behind. Kind
Amy:of like motherhood and being a new mom. All at the same time. So it's kind of hard to separate them, but, um, I'd just say it gets easier. Times, times make up for it. There's a lot of blessings that come with the hard. Makes
Matt:the good times seem all that much better. Challenging times. I think that's one thing, whether it be marriage, or just working the land, nature and markets as a partner, i. e. much control of either. What's good. Take the good with the bad. Cherish the good when it's there, knowing that it may not be there forever. B, not to get too philosophical. Maybe that's why farmers and ranchers, couple, farming and ranching couples seem to stick it out. Maybe beat the average compared to, society in general. Because we know it's not always going to be rainbows and unicorns. Sunshine. And we know that we can get through, as you said, do the hard.
Amy:You learn pretty quickly that you, you don't have a lot of control over really, especially, like you said, the weather, and it applies to life. Then people realize, branching inside, inside of things, that you don't have a lot of control, control certain aspects, and so, that's easier to apply that to the rest of your life, parenting, or, you know, whatever else it may be, so that I think you get that perspective. Maybe a little sooner than you would in a different type of lifestyle. Cause it seems when you don't have those other factors, it seems like you have things under control or that you can control things more. And then when you realize you can't, it's a lot harder to deal with. Maybe. I don't know.
Matt:Yeah, I agree. What was the most challenging thing besides just the lack of control? What was the thing that surprised you the most? About moving back to Dalebanks Angus and starting our life in production ag. I think
Amy:the thing that's the hardest, sounds kind of odd, but it's also a blessing too. I mean the fact that as a mom, you've got little kids, you as a rancher, it sounds kind of odd. Both gone a lot and there a lot. You have, you have long days, long hours, work, Saturday, Sunday, you know, seven days a week. Yet, you're also O there for lunch or you need to run it, take a kiddo with you. you know, that part of it, you know, I often thought, well, yes, you know, you're gone a lot, but at the same time, you're also accessible to some degree. Whereas if you worked at a nine to five job way, you wouldn't be accessible in that aspect. You'd be home in the evenings and be done with work and be home on the weekends maybe, but.
Matt:So you're saying it's better that I would come in for lunch or drop into check emails or whatever I had to do before iPhones and then be gone or would it?
Amy:I'm just saying there's, there's, there's good and bad. I mean, it was hard that you have long hours. Um, I'm home sometimes you're still working, you know, on the computer or whatever. but also I always try to temper that with the benefit or the Positive aspect that, you know, you're still, you were still accessible or around when you, you know, if I really needed help with something, which would be different than a non ranch job, maybe.
Matt:So you came back with a pretty good feel for what a farmer slash rancher type's hours and, uh, ability to be home would be like because you grew up in it.
Amy:Yeah, my dad was a farmer. And a hog. He raised hogs.
Matt:How in the world does someone like Carolyn Graham, who moved back to the ranch after growing up in the pavement of Kansas City when she married dad and they moved back, how do any of these husbands or wives who marry a spouse who is the farmer rancher, how do they get used to it?
Amy:You'll have to ask her. She'll have to be the next on the road. There you
Matt:go. I mean, it's, it was challenging enough for you and me. You grew up in it.
Matt (3):I can't
Matt:imagine not understanding, not seeing this every day as a kid in your formative years and then being thrust into it. We've got friends, many friends, both husbands or wives who married the farmer rancher and are now coming back to this life. And it's, it's a shock. It's, it's a little bit of a shock.
Amy:Yeah, it was an adjustment even for us. You know, we had Ava, she was a year when we came back. And we lived in Platte City, so we were, you know, I worked in Kansas City, so, things were very accessible as far as stores and restaurants and, you know, run here if you need something kind of thing. so that aspect of, of both just accessibility of things and Also, I think the biggest adjustment, you know, at the age that we were at, the biggest adjustment was just the fact that we couldn't go and we couldn't go wherever we wanted to on the weekend. You know, you were working weekends. That was, that was probably the biggest adjustment.
Matt:Unless we were delivering bulls.
Amy:Unless we were delivering bulls.
Matt:We joke about this, but at least our family, and I think nearly every ranching family, is at least some level of this. We feel guilty if we do leave the place
Amy:without a purpose, a ranch. So
Matt:therefore we have to have a purpose. We have to have an excuse. Oh, we've got to go to this meeting or, oh, we've got, I mean, every vacation growing up that I took involved one to five stops at Angus operations throughout the country in order for us to be able to be gone for a week. Each summer we had to go look at genetics. We had to go look at calves out of the next circle. We're going to use or whatever. And I think that that's not uncommon. We have this guilt ridden life that we can't really actually just leave and go somewhere unless the business is calling us to do
Amy:it.
Matt:Which again, not normal today, especially.
Amy:Yeah. You've gotten better at that. Your parents have gotten better at that. But yeah, there's always gotta be a reason to leave and that might just be your
Matt:Yeah, probably so. So is that why we don't retire? Seriously, I mean, most farmers and ranchers, they just, I think, part of it is we don't have a hobby, and so what do we do at age 70?
Amy:Yeah, I think it's your lifestyle, so it's hard to give that up, because that's all you've known and all you've done, and everything, everything revolves around it. It's not just a job.
??:I
Amy:think it's part of it, and having purpose, you know, continuing to have purpose is important.
Matt:But it also, again, and I'm not, this is not a self reflection solely, but I did have somebody a few weeks ago tell me that the reason that this quote unquote next generation won't rise up and take hold, and this wasn't just in agriculture, this was business wide and culture wide and even talking about community service organizations, the reason this quote unquote next generation won't take hold is the old guys and gals won't get the heck out of the way. And their thought was because Because small town rural communities, often run by farmer and rancher types, small business owners, etc. Because those boards are full of 65 to 80 year old men and women, it's not that the younger generation doesn't want to contribute, it's just that they don't want to contribute when they're still being run by their grandparents.
Amy:Yeah, I think that, I think that's probably the case with every generation, that transition. I mean. Mom talks about groups that she's, organizations that she's was in that, you know, it was hard to get the old guard to either change or move on so they could do with the things that they wanted to do. maybe our age or the generation a little bit younger are a little more, even more independent to do things their own way. And I see benefit of both. You can figure out how to collaborate with the older generation. Then you can learn a lot, but they also need to learn how to collaborate with you and cause they can learn a lot from, or we can learn a lot from the younger generation. So I think that's just a challenge probably across the board. Rations. And I think part of it too is our age, you know, we're kind of in that middle zone where a lot of people didn't come back to small towns and come back to rural America. You know, there's. You know, that age group because they grew up in the eighties and things were really rough and, you know, maybe at the time that they would have been coming home, things weren't, in such a place that they could be supported on the ranch that, um, we just didn't have a lot our age. And now there is a younger group and see, it feels like there's a larger portion of, you know, 25 to 35, 40 age kiddos. that are, I guess they're kiddos, kiddos to me, are coming back to the rural areas. So I think maybe because of that, because of that gap, it's a global transition, um, and they just do things differently. So you know, the, the standard monthly or once a week meeting is not always their, their thing. So I think there will be some changes that will be made in order for those organizations or groups to continue with that age group. The
Matt:truth of it is. Any other industry, you and I are 51 years old, any other industry we are approaching, if not already the old guard. And yet nearly any community meeting we go to industry meetings, sometimes average or the younger crowd to the people who are at said meetings. And so here we are talking about they, the older generation. And when in actuality we ought to be the older generation, we've got a lot. Listen to this podcast and they're laughing their tails off as we talk about the older generation. We are the older generation, um, in most aspects, but you're right. Just like with nearly any situation, there is a balance somewhere that probably both ends of the extremes need to give a little. And, um, it's hard after, if this is like you said, all you've done for your entire life. Uh, it's hard to relinquish that control or move on or turn the reins over or what else. And fortunately, in our business, our family, mom and dad have been very good about seeing that there are opportunities when a generation is interested and can and wants to take a set of tasks or take ownership or whatever else. but it's still not easy. It's easier. But we've all seen and heard and maybe people that are sitting here listening today are in the midst of a situation where somebody our age, 50, 60 years old is still not able to make a decision for the family business because grandma and grandpa or mom and dad or whoever hasn't given them that opportunity. And it's that, man, that's risky and challenging. And why would the subsequent generations want to come back and subject themselves to 40 years of before they even get to make a management decision. There's
Amy:definitely a balance of the generation coming up has to feel some ownership or decision making to basically what they're sacrificing is worth it because they are sacrificing a lot to be there and parents haven't been open to that, you know, allowing you to take more and more responsibility. And me, me even, even though I'm not a daily part of the ranch, um, makes the, the sacrifice, you know. That you're making worth it or you see the road ahead I guess a little bit better than if you were not all those things
Matt:and I'll even Be a little too Transparent here, but there were times when we moved back a year two years three years into it even though mom and dad Immediately started giving us Some of that autonomy, you know the day I moved back I May say I basically got to take over the customer service, marketing, and PR part of our business just because that was something that I'd had a lot of training with through the Angus Association and life and what have you and it was talent or something I had interest in. And then soon after the genetic selection decisions and mating decisions and things like that, um, you know, I got to start doing that right off the bat and even still there were times when I. just throw up my hands in disgust because I didn't feel like I was good at everything else I was supposed to be doing. I guess I just bring that up in case there are people out there questioning why they ever came back to the family business, farm, ranch, whatever the case may be, or to prepare them if they are getting ready to, it's not going to be any different than any other job. The only big difference is, it's harder to change. You just either quit or make a significant change in your duties when it's your family business. And I don't know that we can ever quantify how much more difficult it is when your boss is your dad, or your grandpa, or your grandmother, and that business partner is your spouse, your in law, cousins, or whatever, uh, that's a whole extra layer that I don't think that any amount of college can do. or extension meetings, or research can ever prepare you for. We all learn how to network, we all learn how to get along with our boss and our co workers, and we read books and hear podcasts about these things, uh, workplace, environment, culture, and building that positive acquirement. It spills over to the Christmas table, or Thanksgiving dinner, or whatever else, especially when it's maybe in a negative light. It's tough, and it is something that we have to talk about, and we have to recognize, and we have to admit that, once again, it's not a normal business culture and employee employer relationship. It's stressful.
Amy:I just read something this morning that, um, talked about that the thoughts of youth are long, long thoughts. Here, so I just can read it, um, and I, I think, I get it. Get that in the sense of, you know, when you're in your twenties and you're trying to make decisions about your life, you know, you're thinking about the end, like, where am I going to end up? And I need to do all these things to be able to end up there. And I think when you come back to the ranch, you know, as the youth, as the younger person, you're seeing all these things that will, in order for me to get to where I want to be, we've got to make all these changes and we got to add this or we got to do that. And you're, you're Thinking about that long term view. whereas, you know, the generations that, that, the generation that's there at the time, they've already, they already know what they've done to prepare for their end time and they don't feel like some, you know, they need to make all these changes necessarily, or at least not as fast as quickly as maybe the youth that comes back wants to do, um, because, you know, they've kind of laid out their plan and they, they feel like they're on the trajectory that they need to be. for their plan. Um, so, you know, I can see as the person, you know, as, as we're getting to be the generation that's going to be the older generation and having our kids come back, um, you know, that's if they want to, yeah, that, uh, you know, that time span goes quickly. And so now you're already thinking, well, what changes are they gonna, they gonna want to make? You have to. You have to be open to that and your parents have been, you have to be open to that and allowing those changes to be made because,, it does cause, for one, it's just too much conflict if you're not at least open to discussing, you know, it doesn't mean I have to make all of the changes, but if you're not at least open to discussing and figuring it out, how it's going to work for all of you, um, it just isn't going to work or it's going to make it very difficult. And like you said, that's a different dynamic. When it's a family business versus just working for someone, that if you're not happy with what they're accepting from you, then you can move on to a different job. whereas when it's your family business, you've got to work it out. You've got to figure out a way to work it out, to, uh, keep things going.
Matt:So we're going to play. Would you rather, would you rather have the situation where you come back as a young person couple to a farmer ranch. You're a young kid that's not married, uh, to a farmer ranch and spend the next 30 years with family that doesn't want to give you, they want you to learn a lot from them and you do learn a lot, but until they finally pass away or fully retire or whatever the case may be, you never get that opportunity to make management decisions until you're 50 or 60 or have to come back immediately because of a tragedy and the family farm or ranch is going to end if you don't come back and save it and you got nobody to learn from. Both tough situations, luckily we've not had to do either one ourselves, but which is which is tougher?
Amy:Oh that's hard, um I, I think I would choose the, even though it would be very difficult, I think I would choose the one where you were there even if you didn't get Make them in and management decisions because at least you've had that time. There's so many benefits to being with your family, working with your family, always operation because you can change your mindset. Life is a lot about your mindset. So if you can, you can change your mindset and look at the benefits and get to drug down by the negatives of not being able to do everything that you want, decision standpoint, et cetera. As if you don't come back and you're still. Suddenly thrust into it, to take over and be missed out on that, those benefits of being in integration with your family.
Matt:But, play devil's advocate, as I so often do, with you, you're not encumbered by biases, you're not encumbered by the way we've always done things. You have a clean palette, and you get to do it the way that in 2024, whenever you came back. Technology and the current knowledge and understanding, you know, you're not biased. And I've, I've seen both. I've seen folks and, and the right people making the decisions can make either one work. And both could share the challenges, but both could share the opportunities that they had because of that situation too.
??:Yeah.
Matt:I mean, I just, I bring that up because so often I see farms and ranches that are still doing things the way they were in the 1950s. Not because they don't know the technologies are there, but just because two, three generations All had the blinders on because the generation before them told them you can't do it any other way than the way we do. There's good and bad.
Amy:Yeah, there's uh, a lot to be said to being just open to discuss and learn from each other. Because I think that, I think that the businesses or the ranches that are making changes or at least, you know, open to that are the ones that are continuing at a successful level. I mean, not that you can't, not that you can't survive doing things the same way that you've done for years, um, but I think, you know, the ranches that we know that are really growing and making changes and bringing, getting their youth to come back, um, are ones that are willing to, to allow that to happen. All
Matt:right, since we had so much fun with that round, we'll do another would you rather. Would you rather. have a ranch that has historically supported one or maybe two family members, zero kids who want to return to the family farm or ranch, or five kids who all have to come back, want to come back to the farm or ranch. Not any family in particular. Just
Amy:preparing for the worst and Worst or best case scenario. Yeah. Definitely. would take the all five versus none. But no pressure for any of our kids to come back.
Matt:How do you make it work?
Amy:Um.
Matt:You got competition for land, from outside of agriculture, from within agriculture. You can't make, overnight, you can't make a business into something that can support 500 percent more salaries and health insurances and everything else. So, I mean.
Amy:Well, hopefully. It wouldn't happen all at once. I don't think it could happen all at once for one thing.
Matt:Yeah.
Amy:Um, we have friends that, you know, they, they've required their kids to bring something to the table. You know, if you're going to come back, you have to bring some other sort of income. Either, starting another aspect like providing hunting services or,, direct meat services or. to bring additional business into the ranch. they have to use their creativity to come up with something to help financially. So
Matt:you either create an enterprise or you have an off farm job or something to pay your own way through additional revenue or through outside income.
Amy:Yeah, I think that, you know, you wouldn't have to maybe do that with one or two but if you're going to have five kids come back, that's the only way. You're going to be able to do it. You're going to expand your business.
Matt:And for those who don't know our story, the way we did it, and I'm not saying this is right, wrong or indifferent, but we had two non family employees. In addition to my mom and dad, we had one of those two, the longest term employee who took a job elsewhere. Dad called asked if I knew of anybody that might want the job. And it got us thinking that maybe it was the deal. for us to transition into ranch without having to bring in a bunch of new revenue right off the bat. We came in as paid labor. We started working toward agri ship and things like that. And there are challenges with that, because it is hard to look at it from a business standpoint when you're doing the same work that you were. Also, it was a great way for me to get in shape. And learn how to do some of the things. Things that were going on that I didn't even realize because it wasn't happening in the summer when I was working growing up or it wasn't happening on the weekends or spring break or whenever I actually saw the things happening. I thought I knew everything that was going on in Dalebanks Angus and it turns out I didn't know squat. I learned a lot right off the bat and it was a good way to do it. I don't know if I'd do it any different but it's not, not for everybody. We're all kids our age that are teens and 20 year olds. Now, how will agriculture look different for them than it did for us when we were 30? When we
Amy:You know, when we came back, the, the thing that was kind of starting to happen. was sharing our story, you know, letting the world know I had some opportunities right off the bat to do that different views or videos or thing, you know, commercial things like that. That was kind of a new thing. Like people weren't doing that to the extent that they are now by any means., so that was kind of the new focus, just the day to day ranching aspects. so I think once our kids come back, that'll just be kind of a normal part of it is, the social media part of it, especially if you're selling anything direct. But even standpoint, sharing what you do is just kind of part of the job now, I think, or it can be, doesn't have to be. But, just all the technology that's going to be available to them through AI and. And you know, we just kind of get to, to see what that's going to look like, but, virtual fencing and, we definitely had it easier from a labor standpoint than when your parents came back, not that you didn't or don't continue to work very hard or employees, work very hard physically, but the things that you do on a daily basis are different than And I think that will continue to evolve, even though we keep a lot of the same traditions, we still, or actually it was kind of a new transition when we came back, you know, using horses and, the way we have, those things may not change, but just some of the other technology and things that they can wise on will be different.
Matt:I think you're right. I mean, the technology thing, everybody talks about it, but I think, you know, We did bring something up there that's kind of ironic or a paradox. We went, when I moved back, because I liked using horses, some would say we went backwards and we went from moving cows quite often, or at least to a large extent, with a pickup and a four wheeler, leading them in the four wheelers, to back where we used horses a lot, nearly every day. Those first few years. And again, we probably could have done it more efficiently from a time standpoint, but it was something that I, it was a reason that I wanted to be back on the ranch was so I could be horseback. And so here we were supposed to follow the rules and use advanced technology. And yet we took a step back in time and went back to use horses, drag calves instead of running through a shoot and things like that. So And I, I know that it was the right decision economically, but um, that is one thing that I think is important for both the younger and the older generation to recognize is, even though we're flesh of your flesh, we may like things different, or like things done differently, and that has to be okay within reason. Uh, again, that's That's where that give and take comes, and luckily, Dad to accept that and that being fine, and I think we're probably all better for it. And our employees at the time, our employee, liked it better too, and so, what we did. Dad always had to be driven by advances in technology, sometimes a return to a more traditional approach in a business might be good.
Amy:Well, I think it's kind of a quality of life. Decision. Um, you know, that's something you enjoyed and our employees and your dad didn't necessarily when he, you know, when he came back, he, he's not a big horse person. So, that just, just having satisfied employees, you included is important. And so that was, you know, even though it wasn't necessarily his choice, he made a good choice by allowing. Um, just because you want to be, it's hard work. You want to be doing it in a, in a way that you enjoy the most that you can, you know, obviously all your jobs and tasks, you're not going to enjoy, but those that you can do in such a way that it's, uh, that it's enjoyable is also important.
Matt:So we keep bringing up the fact that mom and dad, large part, we feel like did it right. And, and, um, made it as easy of a transition as it could be and continues to be for us from a business standpoint, a cultural standpoint. Why, why did they or why do other families struggle? And, and it's still a struggle. I mean, it's any time, even in the most perfect estate planning and generational transition and everything else is still going to be a transition and change can be hard. And it's not. Is that such a challenge for a generator?
Amy:I mean, I don't, I think it's different in every situation. But, you know, maybe it comes back down to that control aspect. Because there are so many things that you don't have control of. You know, it's scary to let go of, things that have worked., Even though sometimes transitioning things that have worked well into something that might work even better. you know, is good. It's sometimes hard to see that when something's working well, why change it? Um, and I have control over this. So why would I let that control go? Because I have so many other aspects as a rancher that I don't have control over. So, I think that could play a part in it. And just, personalities and communication, you know, you're not, you know, you're not always the best communicator. You know, we have a rule. Your parents kind of had a rule that you have to go and work for someone else first before you come back to the ranch. And I think that's an important step for both of you. if, if grandpa and dad never worked for anyone else, they maybe didn't learn some of those you know, interpersonal or communication skills that you would learn from working for someone else. you just kind of resort back to. always functional, maybe a little dysfunctional relationships and ways of relating. Whereas if you're working for someone else, you're forced to kind of face some of that in your own self of how you communicate and how you interact with people or what amount of control you're willing to give up. And so, that may play a part in it. So I think it's again, it's just, it's different in every situation, but ultimately, you know, you have to balance what's best for you. and what's best for your family.
Matt:what's the hardest thing about being married to your business partner who probably puts in more hours than most business partners would and then turns around and can't turn it off and she or he gets back to the house. How do you deal with that? Now we're just talking the same generation.
Amy:Yeah,
Matt:not worrying about mother's father's in laws outlaws
Amy:Well, it's it's taken 20 20 years to figure out
Matt:basically you say you don't know yet
Amy:No, I'm saying I've gotten a lot better at it You know it because it is it is challenging That it's always about I mean work is a is a big factor in our marriage all the time and it's always there It's always outside our door You know So I talked earlier about it was nice to have the flexibility of you being able to come in and out of the house. But sometimes that's hard too because
Matt:look at all those Airstreams, all my wife wants is an Airstream trailer. Speaking of
Amy:getting away from work, we can get an Airstream and then you won't think about it. Um, but
Matt (3):I think I'd think about it more anyway, proceed
Amy:anyways. You know, sometimes when you come into the house, you're in your work zone and if you don't see. The work zone happening in the house, you know,
Matt:I start knocking heads. You
Amy:start knocking heads, which isn't always about
Matt:literally for anybody that's going to call social services on.
Amy:Yeah. Why are we sitting? Why are we, you know, and not so much for me, but for the kids, but then also. So if I'm, you know, not doing things the way you think I should be doing them, the boss man comes out and definitely been some conflict in that aspect. But, otherwise, just, you coming home and thinking me thinking that you're home for the evening or home for the day. And then it's a wall in about an hour. So I got to go do this for, you know, another hour and then I got to come back. You know, so that was a hard aspect for me at first too is, okay, when are you actually home for the evening? You know, when are you done for the day? Or I got it. No, because then you're getting on the computer. But I also feel like I figured out how to maybe communicate that with you and better when it frustrates me or You know, like yesterday you wanted to deliver bulls on Thanksgiving and try to make it on our way to a family Thanksgiving and it really wasn't working out. Now the road's bouncing these, my voices. Not,
Matt:not yet. We're almost
Matt (3):there, but not yet.
Amy:But, uh, yeah, you know, I think you've gotten a better, you've gotten better at listening when I kind of subtly suggest maybe we just don't need to deliver bulls on Thanksgiving. Maybe we can skip a day and you can take a little break and be refreshed. Fresh for your long trip today, and you, you know, that probably would have been a 30 minute discussion several years ago and, well,
Matt:I probably would have told you you were wrong.
Amy:Yeah. And now you're a little more, cause you
Matt:were,
Amy:I was wrong.
Matt:But from a dollars and cents, efficiency standpoint, you were wrong,
Amy:we could
Matt:have saved a good Yeah. Yeah. Probably 45, 50 minutes of drive time if we added both the dual, yeah, for a six hour trip. No, you were right, and I think maybe you've gotten a little better at being direct or more direct than you used to be and hopefully I have gotten better at, um, hearing you when you subtly say, that's a terrible idea. What the hell is wrong with you? What do you mean you want to deliver some of these three people's bulls on Thanksgiving and ruin our dinner? Welcome to Matt and Amy's therapy session. Um, join us on the couch as we sort through our own problems and make thousands of people listen in.
Amy:Cause we know you
Matt:people have had them too.
Amy:Yeah. It's definitely a process, um, an added dimension, an added marital dimension to, you know, having a work business, family business. Yeah,
Matt:I, because I don't know any other way, I can't compare and contrast, but when I say that farmers and ranchers and their families are not normal, it may be more of a small business owners and their families, because if you own a restaurant or a hotel, or whatever else, you're probably bringing the same stuff home and you never can get away from it. But the fact of the matter is that small business owners are definitely in the minority today, business owners of any kind. And you can't just clock out, turn your phone off, turn your mind off and say, well, you know, whoever just took over for me on The next shift can deal with that because it doesn't matter to me. It still matters and it matters not only to the person who is stressed about it or thinking about it or figuring out that there's a more efficient way of doing this and all we have to do is work on Thanksgiving. It also, oh, I think I just missed my turn. I did just miss my turn. Um, it also matters to everybody around, the spouse, the kids, and that's When things get real is when, uh, it starts getting too extreme. Yeah. It's,
Amy:uh, you know, that's, that is one challenge when you're asked about challenges of being a ranch wife. Um, just explaining to people what you do as a ranch wife is very difficult. Um, you know, the friends that are also ranch wives, you know, we kind of joke about it. You know, your day is, and I work all day. I ranch too, but I don't work full time off the ranch, but I feel like I have a job as a ranch wife because, you know, your day is never the same and you never really know what your day is going to bring because it is a business and there are things that come up that you basically are an employee that you have to help deal with, you know, or it changes what you do in some capacity or what you plan to do for the day. Um, and
Matt:Or if you have kids and the person that's working on the ranch, A, doesn't even consider the fact that they probably could or should be helping out getting kids shuttled or picked up or watched when they're sick or whatever else, and B, in their defense, maybe flat out can't because cows are synchronized to be bred today and tomorrow and that's gonna be all they can think about and do today and tomorrow. Regardless of every other, uh, unforeseen circumstance with sick kids who are home or whatever else. is coming about.
Amy:Yeah, it's kind of that yin and the yang or that good and the bad of the flexibility that you have. Um, because some days you do have that flexibility and of helping out with the kids and some days you definitely do not. And so, yeah.
Matt:I remember vividly walking in one time thinking that I was going to be able to really make your day because I was going to help with young Ava or something for 30 minutes. And you told me, you know, sometimes I wish you would just, when you walk out that door in the morning, not come back until after dark. Because then I know I don't have to worry about you. Don't worry about changing things as you show up for 30 minutes thinking that you're helping and you're actually completely upsetting the trip. If I just knew that you were going to be gone, it'd be easier. I'm like, oh, didn't see that coming. You're welcome, honey. I thought I was doing you a favor. I'm sure that
Amy:was a day I didn't get much sleep the night before. Probably.
Matt:Probably. Because of Ava.
Amy:Yeah, yeah. Because of baby Ava. It's
Matt:all Ava's fault. It's that uncertainty. Yeah, there's definitely a lot
Amy:of uncertainty. No schedule at all.
Matt:I probably quoted him before. The great western cowboy poet laureate, Baxter Black, on an airplane one time, sitting next to a young, attractive lady, and she saw his wild rag and his cowboy hat, and she asked him if he was a real cowboy. Yes, man, I am. Always wondered, what do cowboys actually do? Get up every morning, watch the sun come up, and wait for snow. And
Matt (3):that's kind of it. And that's hard to deal with. I
Matt:mean, we keep going back to the unknowns, but there's a lot of them. There's a lot of them. And as good as we should be at dealing with change and the unknowns, we just move from crisis to crisis sometimes in agriculture, it seems. Like, we live for the crisis. In
Amy:some aspects, yes. I mean, you're a planner, and you have everything planned out.
Matt:Yeah, which is not a good thing.
Amy:Sometimes that backfires. If, uh, if things don't go as planned, it's sometimes, it's like the low expectations. It's harder to, uh, deal with it sometimes when you have a plan and it doesn't work out. Whereas I'm less of a planner. I've become more of a planner than I used to be, but, I've kinda, I'm more of a go with the flow kind of person, um, which is good and bad too. So, it's, branching is really a lot like parenthood. I mean, and that's basically what you have is
??:life.
Amy:Cattle and kids, you know, they all need when they need something, they need something right away and you can't put it off. So you have kids and uh, several pastures full of cattle that have to have whatever they need when they need it.
Matt:We started this podcast comparing my other women.
Amy:Yeah. And now I'm saying that they're actually your kids. Now they're actually my kids. Yup.
Matt:The parallels of cattle production and family This really is like sitting on the couch. Hang out your shingle, honey. People will be calling in for the next one for advice from Dr. Amy.
Amy:Well, maybe it's Dr. Matt. Maybe you're helping me.
Matt:Well, I've been saying that for years. What a blessing I am to you. I'm just glad you're finally recognizing it.
Amy:We make a good team most days if we're not on opposite sides.
Matt:Well, and honestly, sometimes the best teams are constantly, not constantly, but are not hesitant to help their teammate do better.
Amy:Yeah.
Matt:That doesn't come without, as you said, communication and, uh,
Amy:forgiveness. There you
Matt:go. It Takes some of that. All right. We're 58 minutes into an hour long podcast. Any closing thoughts of wisdom? gripes that you have about, the podcast host slash business partner slash father of your children.
Amy:Oh yeah.
Matt:Oh yeah.
Amy:No, I said, Oh no, I don't know. 23 years of, um, it's hard to sum up, but it's been a fun ride and hopefully we'll keep going.
Matt (2):Hopefully the operative word of hopefully. Oh, such optimism. Wild optimism.
??:Again, low expectations. Low
Matt (2):expectations. That's what's gotten you this far.
Amy:Yeah. Just enjoy the present moment, you know. Try not to worry too much about what's coming or what's happened. Just enjoy the present moment as much as you can.
Matt (2):It's impossible, honey. I
Amy:know, it's impossible for you. That's,
Matt:you just got to the reason that it's so hard to be a farmer. Farmer Rancher family is because you're constantly worrying about what's coming next. Weather market risks, the task at hand, the task that we have that's coming up.'cause you gotta prepare the equipment. You gotta prepare the cattle, you gotta prepare the pens, prepare your plan. I mean that is the wild part about watching Yellowstone. Or any of the number of westerns that people who don't get our business think, Wow, wouldn't that be nice to just sit there horseback and not have a care in the world? I've never gotten on a horse and not had a care in the world. I enjoy getting on a horse and it's therapeutic for me. But I don't know any farmer or rancher ever in history who doesn't have a care in the world. We're constantly thinking about what's coming up. And as a result Result. You know, we go, and I may have talked about this, we go to the Symphony and the Flint Hills every June, which this June is, I guess gonna be the last one, but, so if you've got it on your bucket list, make sure and go to Symphony and the Flint hills.org and get your tickets. Now,
??:there's a little plug. We go
Matt:to this symphony and there's a handful of ranchers who maybe go every year, maybe you're hosting it, maybe you're volunteering or whatever else. And for one day a year, at least for me, and I think other ranch. One day a year, we get to stand here in the Flint Hills and see things that we never ever see, that are there every single day. But we see them, why? Because there's 6, 500 of our closest suburban friends who have driven hours, if not halfway across the world, flown, to come and witness this with us, and we see it through their eyes. Otherwise, when we see that grass, we see, okay. Have we taken half of this and is it time to move this group of cows tomorrow or next week or next month? Or we see this beautiful hillside that could use a better pond right there or a water development down the hill from the pond or we could do a better job of grazing if we'd move the mineral feeder here or whatever the case may be. We see it as a, as a part of our business, not as a legacy that's so beautiful that it has no limits. I
Amy:think anything from the outside looks way more romantic than it does on the inside. but it's there and you know, your capacity to appreciate it is there because you taught me that because when we first got married, I'm really, I mean, you know, you, you were always good at pointing out, Oh, look at the sky. Look at the beautiful sunrise. Look at the sunset. You know, you were always pointing out those things. And I, You know, I don't think I did, didn't, I don't think I didn't have an appreciation for those things, but just your awareness of them was greater than mine. And so, it's definitely there, but yeah, being on the ranch every day, it's gonna take that away, you know, you do have to have moments that remind you of that. of where you live and why you live there and the beauty around you. That's life. I mean, everyone gets bogged down with what's happening and what they need to do and we all need a reminder to just enjoy the present moment because that's life too. You know, the present moment is really your life and you can't constantly be worrying about what's to come because you're going to miss your life if you don't, if you do.
Matt:I think tying it into the whole generation transition and And should or shouldn't or can or can't we have the next generation come in as a viable part of this operation? Not Dale Banks Angus, but just in general one's farm or ranch. I don't know how we quantify it on a balance sheet, but we have to recognize that there is value in this land and the ability to raise a family, carry on a legacy and have that that you can't put a dollar amount on. But once we get back in the heat of the moment, trying to pay the bills and make the land payment and all these other things, all that intrinsic value, it doesn't go away, but it's doggone hard to see. I think, just what you said, we have to figure out a way to remind ourselves that we didn't just do this for the paycheck, obviously. We didn't just We did this because we believe it's important. It's important to carry on family businesses in America. It's important to feed our neighbors in the world. It's important to raise a family and show them work ethic. And all these things that we talk about this podcast and coffee shops across the west and midwest and every place else. But we have to remind ourselves sometimes that that's important. It's important. In fact, probably, for the good of the country and of humanity, we still have to keep doing this to prove that it can be done. And there's value.
Amy:Well, your dad's favorite line is, we're not in the business of raising cattle, we're in the business of raising kids. And your favorite line is, the biggest export that we have from rural America is our kids. And that's the That's the daily reminder for me of why we came back and that,, you know, we had Ava at the time she was a year and, you know, that was our decision was we want to raise our kids in this lifestyle. And, fortunately so far, knock on wood, it has turned out. I mean, they, you know, have learned some of
Matt:Ava's friends that are listening to this might argue my question. Um,
Amy:you know, they have,
Matt:sorry, Ava
Amy:developed the skills that we'd hoped that they would. We develop, you know, work ethic and, persistence and drive and also just appreciation for the things around them, and not that you can't get that off the ranch, but for us that we knew that that's where we wanted to raise our kids. And so they are my reminder, I guess, on a daily basis of why we did it and why we continue to do it. And so
Matt:I rarely have a hard time closing out a podcast. I don't know how to close this one out. You got to land the plane for me.
Amy:You're
Matt:my co pilot.
Amy:to another 23 more years. I don't know.
Matt (3):Just 23. What's that make us? 74.
Amy:Hopefully you've got
Matt (3):somebody in mind after that.
Amy:Another podcast in 23 because I don't think you're going to want to do another one with me after that.
Matt (2):Great.
Matt:I'm thinking podcasts will be done. By 2047.
Amy:Yeah, we'll be on to something else.
Matt:But it's been fun for this one.
Amy:Yep.
Matt:So thanks for agreeing to finally do it. I have tried once or maybe twice before. And finally I had enough people that demanded that Amy be a guest. And how dare I not have Amy as a guest. That, uh, I finally said this can't continue. Because they all think it's my fault.
Amy:Thanks
Matt:for doing it.
Amy:They might regret their decision. They're encouragement efforts.
Matt:Not a chance, honey. Not a chance. There probably, there's going to be a, uh, mass request for you to take over as host, permanently. Thanks for listening. As always, we'll be back again in a couple weeks. Thanks
Amy:for having me.
Matt:Tell your spouse thank you. Make them tell you thank you. See that it's a team effort thanks everybody. Talk to you soon.
Microphone (Yeti Stereo Microphone)-2:Thanks again for tuning in to practically ranching. If you're in the market for registered females, we have a nice set of spring open heifers that will be ready to breed this spring. Email me@mattperrier@dalebanks.com for details. And I'll get you the information once again, Merry Christmas. God bless you all in 2025. And we'll talk to you in a few weeks.
