Practically Ranching
Join Matt Perrier as he visits weekly with interesting, thoughtful, entertaining individuals within the beef community. Conversations will inspire curiosity and creativity while maintaining the independent spirit and practical nature for which ranchers are known.
Practically Ranching
#67 - Sam Hands, Quality Beef and a Quality Team
Sam Hands and his family own and operate Triangle H, a diversified cow-calf, farming and feeding operation near Garden City, KS.
Sam and daughter, Marisa Kleysteuber, provide the management and leadership for this progressive, quality-focused beef operation.
In this episode, Sam shares some of his outlooks on employee management, working with the younger generation; plus the lessons he has learned from his time at Kansas State University, the military and just careful observation of what motivates people to do their best.
And, of course, we talk quality beef production, challenges to farming and ranching in southwest Kansas and other production-related issues.
Thanks for joining us for episode 67 of practically ranching.
Microphone (Yeti Stereo Microphone)-18:Brought to you by Dalebanks, Angus I'm Matt Perrier.
Microphone (Yeti Stereo Microphone)-15:Sam Hands could be described in a number of different ways. Cattle feeder, farmer, cow calf producer, beef industry visionary, leader. You know, he and his family's company, triangle H land and cattle have set the bar high for quality cattle for quality beef production. They've won everything from the certified Angus beef programs, feed yard, commitment to excellence award a couple of years ago. To most recently the coveted Earl Brook over award for the top indexing steer at a, the 2024. Beef empire days in garden city. So sure. We talk a little bit about quality beef production in the feed yard business, and the many and issues that are involved in that endeavor. But in addition to those production oriented types of traits, Sam has another quality that I really, really appreciate. He's a great family man, a great boss, a great person. In fact, this episode kind of came about because a friend of mine and former member of our crew here at Dalebanks Angus Brian Watts. Uh, used to work for Sam before he was here at Dale banks. And now out in the panhandle, Oklahoma. You know, Brian always commented about how well Sam managed his team, their triangle H so I wanted to kind of dig a little deeper and find out what Sam's special sauce is here. He shares some of his outlooks on employee management on working with his daughter, Marisa, and the next generation, their triangle H. Plus the lessons that he's learned from his years at Kansas state university, and of course growing up in Southwest Kansas, even his experience as a military officer and just. Uh, observation of what motivates people to do their best. You know, every time I'm around Sam, I learned something. And even though I had a few technical difficulties with this, week's recording again. Uh, I hope you'll learn something too. I think, um, Sam has a lot to share, and I know that you'll enjoy our conversation with Sam, Hands, Triangle H, Land cattle from garden city, Kansas.
squadcaster-ijh1_2_01-13-2025_125437:Well, I've been very blessed, but actually, two sides of my dad's family both came to this part of the country out here in western Kansas, but actually out of my dad's mother's side, the Alleman side, we have been here 150 years. my great, my great grandfather Alleman, he, at 16 years of age, he saddled up one night and ran away from home. And so he, he left a horseback at 16 from Illinois. He went down into the Fort Worth area and worked down there. He did cattle drives from there, clear up into Montana. Primarily kind of settled down into the Dodge City, Panhandle area, doing the runs between the Panhandle to Dodd City. So he was a roaming cowboy for a number of years. In fact, he was out in this part of the country before he Garden City even became to be. And then he later settled down and established a family here in the late 1800s. The Hands family moved in here, oh, right around 1900, but primarily those earlier years it was dryland farming and running some cattle in general. As time went along, oh, I know at the time that I, I was a infant. My parents, like most of the, those in the neighborhood, milked a few cows. In fact, they talk about how they sit the high chair out there in the barn for me to sit in while mom and dad milk cows and that was a line of business to start the day. But, it was right at, seven, about 75 years ago that, dad and my grandfather Vesto drilled their first well for flood irrigation. So, that's when this country really started changing as we, Brought in flood irrigation, pulling water up from the Ogallala aquifer. So first it was flood primarily, growing grain, sorghum and wheat, which has been growing dry land, it's just now it was irrigated. And, then it was there in the, sixties that, the sprinkler irrigation started coming to this part of the country. And so, you know, at the time my brothers and I were students up at K State in the late sixties, early seventies, Things weren't necessarily that, promising out home, so to speak, but it was changing pretty fast. But there, it was interesting that as I was finishing up at K State and had my time commitment with the military ahead of me, a lot of my fellow college friends I went to school with says, gosh, I'm about ready to graduate. I don't know what to do. Where am I going to go? Well, things Are starting to develop between irrigation out in Western Kansas, the cattle feeding industry and everything. I says, Well, you might take a look out west. We've got a few things happening out there. I think it could be a great opportunity. When I get back from the service, they're all out here. I mean, there was a time I probably had went to school with every feedlot manager in western Kansas. But, you know, things have changed over time from those five to ten, five to ten thousand head feed yards. Now we're dealing with fifty to a hundred thousand head feed yards from the corporate level and all that. And it's a whole new marketing. criteria out there as well, but, our operation's been fortunate to grow. I mean, as my brothers and I came back in the 70s and developed, again, the company we know as Triangle H Grain and Cattle Company, we were basically a tenant. We farmed for fam, family members and particularly a lot of neighbors, helped them develop their land into irrigation. and went from there. we had a cow calf operation that actually I'd had the privilege to start with dad when I was nine years old, back in 57. And so we had a few cows, and so we expanded the cow program as well as expanded the farming from dry land to irrigated farming. But just like our cow calf, I feel very fortunate to actually be able to trace them back, to. 1957, but, started AI in 68, and we established, due to the lack of having native range out in our operation, started establishing cool season irrigated grass there in 73. So, knocking on wood to date, we've been in cool season irrigated grass for cow calf for over 50 years. Now, some of that's, some of that's happened to change due to declining water table, but there's various ways to accomplish that, between, technology and the irrigation systems and varieties and so forth but still the cow calf and farming has been our base but as we started marketing on the rail we had acquired some ground that had a grow yard that we were using in that same fashion and we said well maybe we just want to do our own finishing. And so that's how we kind of got started finishing. So after having fed totally in the commercial yards for 25 years, we, started feeding on our own. And today we do some of both, but primarily do our own feeding. And as USPB came along, like I say, we bought in there and that's been a very good baseline program for us. It's, helped us in gathering data because back in the 80s and 90s particularly. I mean my wife and I spent a lot of time in the coolers gathering that data so we'd have that particular old cow calf. But now today anything that comes into our feed yard has a three way ID system, the ranch tag. The lot tag with an ID system and EID. So, we have three forms of identification and so we have the initial weight and the outgoing, carcass weight that we can work from. And, so it's been fun to watch that data come together and help producers do a better job year to year.
Microphone (Yeti Stereo Microphone)-1:Yeah, no doubt about that. Well, Sam, you and I always cover a pretty wide swath of, discussion points and issues. When we run into each other at a meeting, or what have you we could, I could throw about anything at you that I wanted to, but, instead of our typical discussions about fed cattle marketing and value based marketing and cattle feeding and things like that. A couple of the things I want to touch on revolve around people and, whether it be family generational transitions, or. employee relations, you, I think have an innate ability to, Kind of figure out how and what drives people to do their best in addition to what drives cattle to do their best. I saw in an interview that you did with certified Angus beef program, you all won there. Feeding quality excellence, a ward they're a few years ago. And. In that article, They quoted you as saying, but cattle don't perform to their greatest potential without the right people. I reoccurring question four. And you said you and Marissa, your daughter is how to bring in good employees and then help those employees grow and develop. you said we may not be a big yard, but we feel there are some natural niches where we can give opportunities to a person to have a career opportunity, especially those who may not be in a position to marry into ag or inherited. And I think that, that says a lot. and a lot of us. You know, whether we have a big team or not, a lot of us struggle with making sure we communicate what it is we want done to those around us. And so I'd like you to share just a little of how, how you've been able to do that. Uh, they're triangulate through the years.
squadcaster-ijh1_2_01-13-2025_125437:man, I think the biggest thing as we start looking at, part of the team, labor force, if you will. that's outside the family is, is getting them to buy into the program just like they are a family. I mean, as my brothers and dad, and that's put the initial Triangle H Grain and Cattle Company together back 50 years ago, we received a salary and had no employees, later had employees, but. You know, as a company, regardless of what we're doing business wise, if employee is strictly hourly and just there to make the doughnuts, so to speak, each morning, there's not a lot of incentive to me for those individuals to do better. And I've always been real impressed with operations. And I think you and I have both have seen it. Matt in board meetings. You can be a dictator or you can be a cooperator and a salesman. So how do we as company owners, how do we get the rest of the team to buy in? And I think some of that has to be is even though there's maybe the basic ways that we all do things, I think the more they have some input on how that happens, helps them buy into that. You know, as we, in our feedlot, as we feed cattle, yeah there's a time frame it has to happen within and criteria we got to follow, but there's just those little deals that we do every day that they can have an opportunity to buy in and help make that process. They're the ones out there in the trees, so to speak. Sometimes when we're all sitting here working from the desk or the phone, we may not see the trees for the forest. And they're amongst the trees. So as they, as employees see things day to day, and maybe from past experiences, I think that all can help, help letting them buy into that program, And at the same time, I think it's real important for the employees to, to understand what your objective is. Here at Triangle H, we've been extremely blessed to have the genetic pool of cattle that we work with. But even more so, to help that process develop. We were fortunate enough to have bought in and become part of U. S. Premium Beef on the ground floor. So, that gave us a real definite target to, be working towards. And I think that helped a lot. it's just like at the end of each week, or even after we ship cattle, our people, Not just the owners of the cattle, but our people. They want to know, what does cattle weigh? How do they perform? What do they do? They want to know how they grade it. on the rail and so forth. So, it helps them develop an eye for those cattle reaching that optimum end point. the more eyes we got watching for the same thing, the better job we're going to do. So, I think getting, you know, Getting people to buy into the program, but help them be a part of that decision making process. You know, we're seeing some companies even get to the point of actually letting employees have some actual physical ownership. It's not easy to do, but I think there's a lot of merit to that because we're all here for a short time and we're all here to try to be good stewards and good servants. Uh, not gonna take it with you. So. Help, help the ones coming forward, be a part of that process.
Microphone (Yeti Stereo Microphone)-2:Do you have some of those incentive or ownership programs built in today, or is that something you're kind of considering for the future?
squadcaster-ijh1_2_01-13-2025_125437:Probably more for the future, it's been discussed a number of times. You know, we've worked various, bonus programs and that for incentives to, do better, whether it be, covering death loss or percent calf crop, all these things. But, biggest thing, just making sure that everybody understands the objectives, the goals and expectations, but also let them have some input on how we get that mission accomplished. You know, and one thing that's helped particularly in our feedlot side. Marissa has done a lot of communication, of course, today with all the social media, but as cattle are sent in here by the owners, by the time these cattle arrive here, she's got a written email manuscript of when those cattle were born, as much information as you can about the calf crop themselves as far as description, what health programs they've had, what the nutrition program has been to date, days since weaning, all these factors. and basically everybody knows we're going to market through U. S. premium beef. We have options to do different if they so choose, but we've pretty well got an outline from the owner of those cattle. of what, what's arriving at our doorstep. Because our objective is we're just not going to go to standard, protocol, and they automatically get this in 24 hours. We're going to adjust our program to fit the cattle coming in and help match it to best where they can reach their genetic potential. our objective is not, some target that we've selected, Help the cattle reach their genetic potential and particularly our target is towards high quality beef Through US premium beef. that's our objective
Microphone (Yeti Stereo Microphone)-3:Yeah, I want to come back to that quality mindset on you SPB. But, I do want to. Re track back and you'd mentioned. Giving those employees, some autonomy and letting them buy in to the program. How do you figure out. When they're ready. And I know, obviously we try to. Try to hire people that can take it up pretty quickly, but, there's always kind of a growth curve and a learning curve. how do you let them. have enough rain. without getting themselves in trouble.
squadcaster-ijh1_2_01-13-2025_125437:Well, and one thing I think that helps a lot here, Grant, we're dealing with our own cow calf operation as well as feedlot where a high percent of those cattle are custom bases. But, we can say we have a standard operating procedure that we follow here, but again, we try to adjust that to fit the cattle coming in, particularly on the feedlot side and even in our own cow calf. I mean, as we go in wet years versus dry years or, market cycles, well, we're going to tweak and fine tune those, normal procedures to fit accordingly. I think we all see it too often where somebody's hired on and you just say, well, Joe, go out there and do this, this, and this, but we can't assume that Joe knows what we mean by doing this, this, and this. I think it's, we kind of like them to, shadow us for, maybe it's only a day or two, but do some shadowing with somebody. to where they understand, okay, this is the procedure we follow. These are the, that, that work here. Now, at the same time, our encouragement is, maybe from past experience, that they find that they may say, well, had you ever thought about trying this? and that's where a place where they can kind of do some buying in, is be open with some ideas to bring. We have to be open to receive the ideas, but then be willing to offer those ideas. But the bigger thing is we'll do some shadowing to start with. And then as we gain comfort zone, we give them more and more freedom of reign, so to speak, to carry on. But it goes back probably to some of my, days as a officer in the military after I got out of college is, it sounds kind of funny coming from that side. But as I recall, that's where I learned. And it was what the boss checks. So, even though I want to give them, the opportunity to develop themselves and to do the best they can and, become personally involved and take ownership, if I don't do the follow up, How am I really going to know whether that's the case? I think over the years it's just kind of become something I automatically look at and do, but it's that old criteria of you plan, you organize, delegate, execute, evaluate, and you just keep repeating that. That's just an ongoing process you do. It's always been planning, organizing, delegate, execute, and evaluate. But as we talk about having personnel being part of the company, once we're past what you and I as a sole proprietor can do, we either have to resort to the fact that this is as big as we're going to be, or we've got to be willing to bring others in. As we bring others in, you've got more eyes and more physical strength and all these things, but you also have another opportunity to use another mind. And so it's like a team of horses. We need to make them everybody try to make it to where everybody's working together and not go in different directions. Now, as we've dealt with, bringing on personnel within the company, I mean, we've, we've hired out of universities and, We've had people in there without, even a high school education, but the biggest thing is being willing to work, show up on time, and being willing to work, willing to learn. I hope that as you start each day, It's with excitement that, well, what's Mother Nature provided me as far as to work with within the environment today? And, what kind of challenges do we have before us that need to be accomplished today in the operation? And we work our way through that through the course of the day. hopefully at the end of the day, as we're going Leaving the operation and driving home to be with our families we can look back in the rearview mirror and say, this is good. I know I've had a brother that, that, has even accused me, says, You spend too much time looking at your cows. You're always just out looking at your cows. At the time I said, well, I enjoy it, but that's my evaluation. So, did our plan, organize, delegate, execute work? Or what do we need to do different? You know, so, always have to re evaluate and re look at, Are we meeting our goals? Benchmarks or what do we need to adjust? And I think it's no different than, gosh here we all watch, spend all this time watching these football teams. Well the coaches show up just as much as the players show up, but they're always planning, organizing, delegating, executing, and evaluating. But the, I remember being told that back in my days of the service, is what the boss checks gets done. And that doesn't mean to be insulting, but if you don't do your part. As a follow up, how can that employee get the,, feedback from you as, did I do a good job or not?
Microphone (Yeti Stereo Microphone)-13:Not to draw too many more parallels to value-based marketing, but that feedback that you talked about, through us premium beef, and you've mentioned several times, but that feedback that you're giving your employees. Is fairly similar to the feedback that you're getting from the packer, from the grid on how your cattle did. And I think. You know, evaluation, you talk about things like that. I think. There's quite a few parallels between those, for sure.
squadcaster-ijh1_2_01-13-2025_125437:I appreciate that, but yeah, it was just like back in the 80s there. Yeah. When basically the feeding industry was what we call four way colored cattle. We brought all these continentals into the industry and you talk about a mongrel set of cattle out there. There was no consistency throughout the feeding industry and, but yet every hoof brought the same price. I don't care whether it was a set of roping steers. or the best set of Dale Banks steers in the country, they all brought the same price. So I became quite frustrated at that point and started marketing on the rail, just initially, just using the old grade and yield system. Now I found that, okay, we'd been beating everybody in the feedlot as far as performance, but there was room for improvement on the rail. So we really started focusing on our genetics going forward. And so we got tied in with IBP and we were allowed to ride piggyback on Paul Engler's formula that he had with IBP. And so I had 10 years experience of that before USPB even came along, which was a blessing because we were where we needed to be at that point in time and have moved on from there. But yeah, having that feedback every week. to show us, well, maybe we're a little early, maybe we're a little late, but, yeah, we, we, we've adjusted rations as well as implant program strategies, days on feeding everything to, to try to hit that target the best we can. Now, the challenge part we have probably in our feeding operation is we're totally dealing with. other cow calf producers across the country. As compared to most of my neighboring feed yards that have order buyers that are just buying certain, certain sex, certain weight of cattle. And so as we deal with calf crops, there's going to be more variance in our pin of cattle than maybe those bought by an order buyer, but they'll be more consistent in the genetics. But we will have to do some sorting to get them to realize their genetic potential. So they'll be the good old big ones go first, then kind of the middles, and then it'll be the tail enders that, you know, maybe they're the poor genetics of the calf drop, and maybe they're just the younger ones. But here, um, Oh gosh, it's been nearly 30 years ago as we got in that process of doing all that with that information available, we developed our own index. So, out of a calf crop of 100 calves, let's say, we've got them ranked top to bottom on their feedlot performance and their carcass traits. Now, what typically will happen with the cow calf operator is, well, I want them all to be just like this top one. And that's fine, but we say, more importantly, let's find why those ones are on the bottom and let's get rid of that bottom 10 percent and keep moving up from there. But, it's been interesting to have some feedback from them. But, you know, one, one thing that's, universal, I'd say, whether it's our program or any of these other. corporate feed yards is the importance of health. if you were to watch, sale Through Superior Livestock, there's a segment in there that's all on the beef cross dairy calves. And I've been kind of surprised initially about how those calves may bring more money than the beef calves you and I produce. But the whole thing is there's volumes, consistency, traceability, and health programs. And the health programs is tremendously important these days. That's why Marissa works a lot with helping the producers. If they don't have a good health program going on home, help them get one established. But coordinating that with what we do here because, you know, back there in the, I'm gonna say the 60s through 80s, when you had your everyday commercial feedlot going on out here, if you weren't under a quarter percent death, death loss as a yard, you probably wouldn't stay in business very long. Today, one and a half, two percent becomes common practice. A lot of that's just because of lack of labor. But it isn't, it isn't that hard to do better, but it's when you've got such large volumes and shortage of labor and shortage of people. trained labor, it's becoming more challenging, but it's amazing the technology that's out there today to help us all do a better job. But that's where we have a real fortunate situation for us in that we're working with fellow cow calf producers. So we as a company, we look at each one of those sets that come in just like we do our own cow calf operation And feel that same importance that they do, I mean, uh, each animal is part of their family, just like ours is part of ours, and so we try to keep that all in mind. Part of it, I think, goes from the standpoint, back in those earlier years in the feedlot business of the, particularly the 60s and 70s, you were dealing with more of yearling cattle. But then, as genetics and that had all improved, you were dealing with more calf feds. But now, again, we've kind of been full circle, in that, there's a lot of these big yards today, they don't want to see those animals until they're, weighing eight, nine hundred pounds in about a year of age. So, they've, yeah, our thousands are exactly right. I mean, back in your Flint Hills, there's cattle that go out to grass in the spring bigger than they used to come off the grass in the fall, you know. but, you know, and that builds on a whole new deal here we talk about as we get this data on the end. always evaluating that. I mean, just like currently. I'm jumping subjects here on you, Matt, but just like currently, due to where we are in the market cycle, the signals say, just keep feeding them, just keep feeding them, make them bigger, make them bigger. Well, I'm just using rough numbers, but basically when your cost of gain is a dollar a pound and you're selling for two dollars a pound, duh, it doesn't take a lot to figure that out. But at the same time, we have to look at the fact, there's two things. One, As we've all became very proficient with EPDs from a cow calf standpoint, when you add positive to positive to positive, what are you going to get? Not a smaller animal. You're going to get a bigger animal. Potential to get a bigger animal. But that's why the grade's showing up like it is and everything. But at the same time, I've been a little disappointed in our feeding industry from the standpoint of when we were totally selling live. Feed yards focused on feed efficiency. that was the big thing, that and death loss was the big thing they looked at, was feed efficiency. Today, where they're all selling on the rail, they sound like a packer. It's dressing percent, it's dressing percent, it's dress, and I'm, I get in some real touchy arguments with people about dressing percent because, It really has nothing to do with what the consumer's getting to enjoy. And so I think the question we as an industry got to be looking at today is where's that optimum end point of feeding those cattle to? Because just more days on feed doesn't give you more red meat. And after so many days on feed, you're really probably not changing the quality grade that much either, but you are putting more white tallow. on the rail. And so where's that optimum endpoint? Because like in our part of the country out here where water's and our aquifer is becoming more crucial, if we're overfeeding cattle, are we not just as guilty as the farmer that overwaters his crop just to make sure he gets the big yield he wants? So whether we're a farmer or a cattleman, we need to be more in our optimum efficiency level.
Microphone (Yeti Stereo Microphone)-8:What's it take for that to occur? Is it the carrot or the stick? We have to change. The grids are. Rule that we can't use this much water in Western Kansas. what's it going to take to get to more of that optimum? Endpoint and feeding and usage.
squadcaster-ijh1_2_01-13-2025_125437:Well, I think we'd probably all agree that the dollar bill drives everything. Supply and demand, the dollar bill drives everything. And it's just like I say, we know we don't need to be feeding these cattle to weigh 1, 700 pounds and have 50 percent fours and 15 percent heavies and all these kind of things. We know that, but it still pays. It economically pays right now, but I think we have to be more mindful of our responsibility as of stewards of the land and service to mankind to do what's right. you know, the on the Packer level is pounds, pounds, pounds. I mean, if, if that chain shuts down for some unfortunate reason, they can tell you by the second what that costs them for every, every fraction of a minute or whatever that's down. It's amazing what our ag industry out here, whether it's beef, pork, dairy, that the economy of scale they're operating and with the labor force they're working with. It's amazing what they're getting done. But, um, I think we're in a very fortunate situation here in the beef industry. And that, yeah, the Continentals that we brought in here during the whole late 60s through 80s, they, they, uh, did a lot to add production efficiency. To our, uh, cattle in the feed yards and, uh,, more red meat yield and all this. But, like I say, by the time we got into the 80s, we were dealing with about a 45 percent, percent choice. Well, thanks to the Certified Angus Beef Program, which I've been totally privileged to have been not on the, not only the decision making levels, but to have been involved in various aspects to watch that grow. But Certified Angus Beef Program is, in my opinion, is what's saved and made the beef industry what it is today. And so, today, the consumer wants that high quality product, but just like a gentleman I was talking to here the other week, he says, he says, you know, our young people and kids today, don't even think chickens have, have bones, you know, or have chicken wings. They just think, they think of just, you know, chicken tenders and all these things. I says, that's a very good point, because, really, I think we could do the same thing in the beef, in that, Yes, those of us on the elder side, we know what a ribeye is supposed to be like and so forth, but our younger sector beyond hamburger, what do they really know or care? And so, how many, how many steaks could we really turn that ribeye into, uh, as long as it's thick and juicy and has good flavor? So, I think, as a beef industry, we could probably do a, a lot to increase the value of our carcass just with a knife. Because economically, we're probably not going to back up, uh, genetically, but with a knife, as long as we have thick, juicy, flavorable cuts, the consumer, I don't think they really care what shape it is, just as long as it tastes good. Is what I described, thick, juicy, and flavorable. And again, I give a lot of appreciation to certified Angus beef, what they've done and accomplished in that
Microphone (Yeti Stereo Microphone)-14:Yeah. Now you're getting into several topics that we've had past discussions here on practically ranching about, uh, whether it be portion size and. Cutting those stakes into multiple pieces and presenting them different ways or, or what have you. Um, you also touched on one that we talked about. Oh, gosh, about a year ago. And, and that is. How much longer can we afford to keep raising the levels of corn? Um, and other crops, but corn is probably the one that gets the most water and the most blame. Um, can we keep doing that in Southwest Kansas? And if so, how? And, and, um, What are you? What do you see the future for irrigation there?
squadcaster-ijh1_2_01-13-2025_125437:In our, in our part of the world here, where say 16 might be our normal rainfall. We don't, we don't, don't need to be trying to produce corn to the level that Iowa and Illinois is. We need to have the appropriate varieties planted in our part of the country and supplement Mother Nature what needs be so that, again, they can reach their genetic potential. But it's just like in the feedlots here, we're talking about the cattle, I mean, yeah, as we were talking about the, um, the overall percents of death loss and some of these things. As, as we saw over the years, the performance of these cattle get better and better, uh, and invariably we were seeing some issues, which other feed yards have as well, and that'd be, what we call late deads in the feeding period or enterotoxemias. Some of these issues, but when you got these cattle that perform like the superstars do, you're really walking on thin ice. Now, a measure we took here probably close to 10 years ago is, we actually brought more roughage back into the diet, so as to give more of a buffer there and let those animals truly operate. as a ruminant rather than a simple stomach animal. And that's, that's made a huge difference. So we kind of control how much of that feeding period that they're here is towards the harder finishing of it. Even, even at that, uh, towards that end, we're watching our implant program, but the amount of days we have on real, what we call hard feed, even it's got more roughage in it than most yards would. Uh, we still kind of control that. We have a lower ration that we want to grow calves on and the high percent of the feeding period is done in what we call more of a transition ration that they'll still get the performance there. It's just not quite so hot to, so we don't, create an abusive situation to cause problems because guys share back in the sixties, you know, finished year might weigh a thousand pounds. Well today we got them going out at 700 pounds. They don't have any more hearts and lungs than they did before. You know, so you're, you're making that same engine do a lot more work.
Microphone (Yeti Stereo Microphone)-10:So we'll kind of switch back to the people side of the business here, Sam. As you've brought Marissa back into your operation. And I think that you said there offline that, um, all of your brothers and you of course came back, um, Back in the sixties, but two of the nine cousins, I think that you said in Marisa's generation or back, and, um, as you've seen her and Tyler come back. What are some tips that you would have for bringing that next younger generation back and making it easy, making it as easy as possible for them and for you and employees and everything else in that transition.
squadcaster-ijh1_2_01-13-2025_125437:I think one thing we've, we've all seen is just in the case of our operation here with Marisa, there's more and more of our young ladies coming back into the operations these days. And that's very encouraging. And, you know, and I think as Marisa came back and got involvement there was probably some resentment from the males after thinking, well, I'm not going to have some young girl tell me what to do. You know, but, uh, the same time they quickly saw that she was in the trenches with them and there wasn't anything that they were doing that she didn't do as well. And so once, once they got on, on line with her and, and understood what her objectives were and, and worked together as a team, I think they found it, um, very rewarding because she, she's a, in her case particularly, she's a lot better, what I'm going to refer to as an HR person than I am, you know. Um, um. You know, she has those people skills a lot better than, than I do. And, uh, but I, you know, our, our young people today, no doubt think differently. Uh, but just like during my days back at K State, well, in my generation time of going back to K State, we all needed everything we could learn from the books. We knew how to do the work. We knew what cows were about. We knew what corn was about. We needed everything we could learn from the books. Today's young people is just the opposite. Even if they don't have a lot of education, they know how to go on social media and get more information than I could ever dream of, but they maybe don't understand the basics. What what needs to happen and so even at our university levels, hands on experience is more important. And so that's why I talk about shadowing when we bring new people in. We'd like to have them shadow. For a while, till they get comfortable with what our process is, you know, I know she does a great job of trying to make sure they. Have the proper tools they need, whether it be trucks, pickups, trailers, whatever, but they need to have the appropriate tools and that to be the best. or fancies or anything like that, but have appropriate tools, but then need to understand the objective of the, of the job and, and, and the essence of the time. As you, like I said, particularly in cattle feeding, there's a, there's a, when we are pushing these cattle like we do, the essence of time is, is real important as well as what we call reading the cattle in the feed yards to make sure that, that, uh, bunk management and everything's happening, happening appropriately and that we're monitoring. What they're doing along, along with, with the, uh, with the weather. But, you know, as we deal with operations, whether it's ranch, farm, feedlot, dairies, whatever. It's all about time. I mean, there's the supply and demand, dollars and cents. But it's all about time, time and location. But the most expensive time any of us can spend is redo. So, that's why we feel it's so important to have, uh, understanding what's expected to where it's done right the first time and in the appropriate amount of time, you know, because redo time is extremely expensive, uh, and then everything gets, gets behind. But then there's kind of the old cliche, leaves people scratching their head a little bit, but I think we all have to stop and think about it is, do we make the time fit the job or the job fit the time? but as you know, as well as anybody, Matt, When working cattle, faster is not necessarily faster. Sometimes slower is faster. Just because you get it right the first time and you create less stress, cattle and people don't experience any accidents and so forth. You know, as we're looking at, personnel issues, I know something we try, try to do is as much as possible is, local, because the positive about local is they're more apt to stay, you know, you can find a superstar coming from out of state, but will they stay? Okay. You know, and so, local is very valuable, particularly out in this part of the world. I wish I was bilingual, our young people that are bilingual today are at a definite advantage. Um, but I know we've, we've had a number of people from other cultures come in and If there's that bilingual opportunity within the company, it really has a tremendous additional value.
Microphone (Yeti Stereo Microphone)-9:What are some other things Sam, that you've kind of figured out have helped you in creating that team approach their triangle H.
squadcaster-ijh1_2_01-13-2025_125437:we, we work to try to create a timeframe here that people get home in appropriate time and safely and have time to spend with their families and so forth. But, um, you know, I, of course, this all comes after the fact that they're here, but are, are they one that always find it a. easy way to get out early, so to speak, you know, or are they, are they one of them making a difference in the day? But the, the thing we've also worked with here, I know in the big feed yards, they have kind of a rotational system of so many days on many days off and all this. And, and in their number of people are dealing with, that's about the only way they can do it. We try to honor weekends as best we can. Um, and work around that where basically our, primarily our work happens Monday through Friday for the most part. Certain amount on Saturday and minimal on Sunday. But we tried to to accommodate everybody's needs as best we can to where they could be to the Kids basketball games and other activities and home for anniversary and all these kind of things the best best we can, as I said, it's, it's. It's a privilege to be part of the food source here, providing food for the world, but a lot of responsibility comes along with that, and I think that's an important thing to, uh,, try to instill in our employees is every human body that's born needs nutrition and shelter, and you're part of that, you're part of that solution. So, how can it, how can you on a day to day basis help, help do your part to make sure mankind is taken care of for another day? You know, food and shelter wise. But, uh, gotta remember their individual needs. I mean, I had, I had a good friend, an associate from another operation make the comment. It always stuck with me. He says, I know when we get around holidays and weekends, it's always a struggle. Who's going to be here and who's going to work? His comment was as owner you can go whenever you want to go, but his point was take care of your people first
Microphone (Yeti Stereo Microphone)-11:Yeah, I would agree completely. And, um, Point. Very well taken and spot on. One thing that everybody always talks about, whether this is the motivating factor for people doing their job and staying with their job or not. Everybody talks about compensation. Hourly versus salary, additional benefits packages. If you're at Liberty, you know, you're willing. Um, how do you handle that at triangle H in terms of how, how the folks are paid and rewarded for the time they're dedicating to you?
squadcaster-ijh1_2_01-13-2025_125437:Uh, that way we try to avoid that aspect of watching the clock. You know, we got a job to do and to get done. Uh, we try to monitor what, what we understand to feel is the going, uh, wage for the territory and living costs for our area and these kind of things. But at the same time, and I know a lot of people get. Particularly on the upper end of the operations get paid very well, uh, with benefits that go along with it. But each, each person has a very unique responsibility, and so we want to make sure they're paid appropriately. But kind of, one thing we seemed like we've always noticed, that as long as they have the appropriate amount of. Uh, income to take care of family needs and, and live accordingly. Time off is probably more important than anything else. So we try to, again, honor those times off that they need to, uh, to attend the kids events or anniversaries. family outings, and I always jokingly say that from about mid November to mid January is one of the toughest times of year because how do you get everybody where they need to be on Thanksgiving, Christmas, New Year's, etc. And we do a lot of the same thing around Easter and 4th of July and Labor Day, Memorial Day, all those different events. But, um, going back to what the gentleman told me before is, well, I can make an adjustment and do that whenever. I want to do it, but, try to help them have that privilege to enjoy those days the best we can. At the same time, we, everybody here understands up front that, um, not everybody is going to be able to be off on Christmas day. So, at least a nucleus of people will have to be here on Christmas day. as unfortunate as it is, but we, we, Do the best we can to try to accommodate their wishes and needs to where being part of the food industry and particularly the livestock industry is not a negative, but they can hold their heads up high be proud of what they're doing.
Microphone (Yeti Stereo Microphone)-12:Yeah. I think that. Coupled with your perspective of, as you said earlier in the podcast, how you approach that day what's what's mother nature got in store for me today. And how am I going to deal with her challenges? I mean that, that positive outlook and perspective, and whether it be dealing with employees and, and their challenges or anything else that comes at. Yeah, I think, um, Uh, it says a lot. And, In today's day and age seems like everything has to be written down and cleared through an attorney or legal challenge channels. It doesn't sound like you have a 150. Pay each employee handbook and specifying how many hours of paid time off they get and how to request it and everything else you just. Make sure that if they're getting the job done and they need some time with family, you figure out a way that somebody else can help make it happen. And then I think that. A little bit of flexibility goes a long way in that. in that regard.
squadcaster-ijh1_2_01-13-2025_125437:And we do have a, you know, policy that they're, each, each person's authorized X amount of days off through the course of the year. And, you know, and really if they're all, all, all managed properly, it's amazing how many days off they have. Now, we've been very blessed at the same time as Very seldom does anybody use all their days, but it's not a use or lose. So, if they don't use all their days for the year, it goes in the bank, so to speak. So, at that point in time, when they make a change of vocations or retire, it's money in the bank. basically, as a person comes on board, here's my recall is is out of a course of 365 days. Potentially, you've got 85 or more days off a year. Available, you know, that's basically through the, through the course of the year out of out of a month, you'll have. Yeah. 3 weekends, it'll just be 1 day 1 weekend will be 2 days, but then X amount of days for holidays and and a couple of weeks of paid vacation as well. We don't, we don't have as many, you might say, sitting on the bench waiting to get called as we used to. Everybody's pretty, pretty fully committed, but everybody understands that. Okay. I'm going to have to cover for. Jake here tomorrow, but he'll be coming to me the next day and so forth. So, but yeah, we've kind of observed that After X amount of money Uh, time off is more important and it's just like, I heard just recently I had a, had a young, young man that got engaged and all that and I says, sorry, I asked a few questions. I says, well, the big thing you want to be thinking about, I says, I'm not, I'm not wanting you to leave, but I says, you're a bride to be, where is it that you and her are going to be happy? Because if mom is not happy, nobody's happy. like that. We've, we've, we've seen, we've, we've seen cases over the years where, that has been, that's been a big issue. So that we, when we see that coming up as a potential, we, we want to challenge them because I'd, I'd rather get it done up front than to have to deal with it later. because I want their marriage and their family life to be successful.
matt_5_01-13-2025_140256:That pretty well sums up the entire conversation, and how you have had that success with Triangle H, and with keeping everybody going in the right direction. I mean, you can go clear back to the KSU days when you told a few of your buddies that Western Kansas is where it's at. And by the time you got back from the service, they'd started feed yards and were on the front edge of it.
squadcaster-ijh1_2_01-13-2025_125437:creepy bee for anything You want.
matt_5_01-13-2025_140256:You were on value based marketing before value based marketing was even cool. And so you were ready to take off with U. S. Premium Beef when it came about. Um, you seem to have a bit of a visionary approach in seeing what's about to happen and not just talking about it, but actually doing it. Doing it, even if it is, like you said, that young employee that you can tell he or she, the spouse is probably not going to love being and doing what it is you're doing. And so we need to talk about this and think about this for it becomes a problem. And that's, that's what I think all of us have to do, whether it be with employee relations or generation transfer, or even just cattle management and handling, it's, it's a, you gotta be looking longterm.
squadcaster-ijh1_2_01-13-2025_125437:deal with Well, it is and like I said, it's, I think it's a unique blessing to be involved in a situation where we are part of the food, food industry and, even though our part may be very small, but just to know that we can hopefully make, make a difference. And again, I'm real proud of the beef industry and that. And of course, you talk about things out here. I mean, underground water is what made our. country has a success it's had, but there's also a lot of our country out here that doesn't have that underground water and they also have been successful. And part of it is, at least amongst the people out here is, and maybe it's just the nature of the people that are willing to come out here, is that they kind of have a can do attitude. I mean, they just won't take no for an answer, you know. They, they will find a way to make it work
matt_5_01-13-2025_140256:I always cherished my opportunities, cause I didn't know a lot of folks from southwest Kansas till I went to K State. And, um, not to say one region, but, there was a, and you called it, can do attitude, I call it rabid capitalism. They, they approached a challenge that I would have said, well, I don't know, what are the neighbors going to say if I did something like that? And they'd be like, pony up, let's borrow the money and go. And I mean, no questions asked. Let's roll. It was just a little different way of, of, uh, yeah, you gotta be, you gotta be a tough old bird to live in 16 inch or less rainfall and a drought every other year and
squadcaster-ijh1_2_01-13-2025_125437:Well, it's very, very true and you know, as you go on, on, uh, West, it's, uh, more, more of that case, more of that case all the time. Um,
matt_5_01-13-2025_140256:You bet. Well, Sam, I appreciated a bunch. This has been a fun discussion. It always is when I'm around you and it doesn't matter what topic we're on. It seems like you've got a pretty good handle on all of them. And so, um, again, congrats on everything you've done this far, the best to the family and, sure appreciate you being on today.
squadcaster-ijh1_2_01-13-2025_125437:Well, thanks, Matt, to have the opportunity. I feel an honor to be part of your podcast system and, enjoy the discussion appreciate the leadership of all you young people for our industry going forward.
Microphone (Yeti Stereo Microphone)-17:Once again, thanks for tuning in to practically ranching. We appreciate you being here and all your support. If you like what we're doing, right. This show, share it with somebody you think would enjoy it. And we'll keep trying to crank out the content. All the best to you. As we start into our winter and spring calving seasons across the nation. Be sure. And take care of yourselves and your family. As well as the livestock during these, uh, These upcoming weeks and months in the cold. So all the best. And we will talk to you again soon.
