Practically Ranching
Join Matt Perrier as he visits weekly with interesting, thoughtful, entertaining individuals within the beef community. Conversations will inspire curiosity and creativity while maintaining the independent spirit and practical nature for which ranchers are known.
Practically Ranching
#76 - Josh White, Always Be Prepared to Give an Answer
Links:
National Cattlemen’s Beef Association
Environmental Stewardship Award Program
U S Roundtable for Sustainable Beef
Josh White serves as the Sr. Executive Director - Producer Education & Sustainability for the National Cattlemen’s Beef Association (NCBA). He is a fourth-generation cattleman whose first experiences with cattle trace back to helping with his grandfather’s commercial Hereford cows in central Georgia as a child. By age twelve Josh had purchased his first heifer, began building his own herd and became a self-professed cattle nerd. After graduating with honors from Berry College (’95) in northwest Georgia with a degree in Animal Science, Josh worked in private industry and grew his cattle herd, while also serving as a volunteer leader in several county, state and national ag and cattle organizations.
In 2009 Josh took the opportunity to move from a volunteer leader role to full time industry service and joined the Georgia Cattlemen’s Association and Georgia Beef Board as Executive Vice President, serving there until joining NCBA in 2014. In his current role as Sr. Executive Director – Producer Education & Sustainability with NCBA, Josh and his team are working to capitalize on the rich histories of the Beef Quality Assurance, Masters of Beef Advocacy, Environmental Stewardship Award Program, Stockmanship & Stewardship, and Cattlemen’s College programs while moving these initiatives forward to deliver even greater value to NCBA members and the cattle industry. New programs like the Rancher’s Resilience Grant are a true passion for Josh and the team – finding ways to empower even more producers to participate in impactful educational opportunities. In addition to overseeing numerous programs, Josh provides leadership for NCBA’s policy funded sustainability efforts and supports beef checkoff funded efforts associated with sustainable cattle production.
Josh was recently awarded the Continuing Service Award by the Beef Improvement Federation for his passionate service to BIF over the past decade. He currently serves on the Beef Focus group for the USDA Meat Animal Research Center (Clay Center, NE) and on the Animal Science Advisory Council at his alma mater. He also represents NCBA on the U S Roundtable for Sustainable Beef and serves as co-chair of the Cattle Health & Welfare committee at the Global Roundtable for Sustainable Beef. Josh continues to own cattle on the family farm in Georgia. He and his wife of 29 years, Erin, live in Highlands Ranch, Colorado. Their three children are scattered around the country in early career or college, and they have one exceptional grandchild.
Thanks for joining us for episode 76 of Practically Ranching. I'm Matt Perrier, and we're here thanks to Dale Banks Angus, your home for Practical. Profitable. Genetics. since 1904. My guest this week is Josh White. I've known Josh since I was elected to the Beef Improvement Federation Board in 2016. Uh, we've both moved on from those board positions at BIF, but we caught up for this face-to-face visit while we were at the annual BIF symposium in Amarillo, Texas last week. Now, as loyal listeners to this podcast can attest, I have kind of a soft spot for students of the beef industry. Josh clearly does as well because he spent his entire professional career either serving as a volunteer leader or a staff member of various producer organizations, first in the southeast, then on a national scale. And in fact, Josh's love for cattle and education and learning led him to purchase his first cow from his grandfather when he was 12 years old, and then that entire cow herd by the time he was age 16. In nearly all of his roles, he's been helping educate others all the while, soaking in quite a bit of this learning for himself in the process. For the last decade, he has served as the Director of Producer Education and Sustainability for the National Cattleman's Beef Association. The first part of that job title, it's fairly innocuous, but the S word, as I call it, seems to heighten a few of our senses. In this case though, sustainability is clearly an excellent mission. I mean seriously, who doesn't support producer sustainability? We cover some of Josh's viewpoints on all these efforts. Education, sustainability of our beef cattlemen, stewardship of our resources, we talk about stockmanship and the beef quality assurance program and succession planning, and a whole host of topics. And in true Josh White fashion, he provides links for nearly all of the programs that we discussed, and those are included in this episode's show notes. The next rainy day you have, I would suggest checking any or all of these links out. Most of all, we talk in this episode about being curious, always striving to get better at our craft, and caring enough about the beef industry to, as Josh Paraphrases from scripture,"always be prepared to give an answer." If you like me, enjoy learning, growing, and better understanding our industry, then I think you like me, will really enjoy this conversation with Josh White.
josh:Beautiful spring. We've gotten lots of rain in, uh, the two locations. I track the closest where I live in metro Denver and then in Georgia, where I still have a few cows. So lots of moisture in those two locations, uh, through this spring and early summer,
Matt:and not a bad cattle market to, go along with that. Holy
josh:smokes. That's the understatement of the day. Yeah, it's just on fire. I sold some calves down there and I, I just run a few head still on a family operation, but I sold a few back in April when that's usually the right time to sell those fall born calves. And man, I can't believe how they've kept going up, which I'm not complaining. I got plenty of money out of'em.
Matt:So you should have waited till the quote unquote low in November. Well, my
josh:dad, my dad turns, uh, 80 this year and he's my herdsman and so it's really built around his schedule and what he wants to do. I just try to make it as easy for him as I can and, and let me keep a few cows around there that aren't too much of a headache to him. Yep, that's, that's good. It's more about that than anything. Keep him in good rig.
Matt:Yep. That's good for you. So that is today kind of your hobby. Your main gig is your title's.
josh:I'm the Senior Executive Director of producer Education and Sustainability at National Cattleman's Beef Association.
Matt:And so you and I just made the cardinal sin, in my opinion, of the beef industry. And the two things that cattlemen want to learn about and talk about are what The weather prices and weather. Yeah, the weather and the markets. That's right. And the two things that we probably have the less the least ability to have effect on and get better at are prices, right. And weather. Right. So you, I think your entire career have been in some way, shape or form trying to help ranchers educate themselves. Tell us a little bit about your time before NCBA, what all you did. Sure. All those different things that you've kind of tried to help share some
josh:information. I don't wanna bore everybody too much, but, um, yeah. Grew up in, uh, in the south, uh, son of a commercial banker. Uh, my grandparents were much closer to ag. My, one of my grandfathers, my paternal grandfather had a farm and was in the farming business his whole life. And so I kinda caught the bug from, from the grandparents. It skipped a generation. My dad wasn't much on it, but, um, by the time I was 16, I owned all the cattle on the family farm. Uh, and had a note to my dad because he was tired of fooling with them. Right. And said, you're way better at this than me, so here you go. Um, but we're, our place is pretty close into Atlanta, so it was already starting to get swallowed up by Metro Atlanta. And so didn't have a whole lot of opportunities through four H or FFA or anything. I didn't have any of that in the high school I went to, but was able to latch onto some folks that knew. A lot more about cattle than I did in extension and through various associations. And then, uh, Sunbelt Ag Expo is the big farm show in the Southeast that draws from many states and many countries. And that was like the highlight of my year as a pre-teen and early teen to go down there and just soak up as much info. This was pre-internet, so this would've been in the eighties, late eighties and, and, uh, got exposed more to breeds of cattle and, and the ag land grant university systems and whatnot that were in the southeast that had big displays and recruiters and whatnot. And so ended up getting recruited to go to Berry College, which is a private college in North Georgia that is one of the largest campuses in the world. They run a lot of cattle and they guarantee every student a job. And so I was able to go up there and work on the beef unit, became a student supervisor very quickly, lived out at the beef unit, uh, for most of my time up there and got an animal science degree and I was able to learn how to ai, I was able to drive a truck and trailer and, take cattle to a pack and plan and, you know, just really got a lot of experience that I didn't get just on a cow calf place, uh, that I grew up on. So that was a great experience. Really helped expand my horizons, going all around the southeast. They also ran four or five breeds of cattle, so I got to learn the genetics. I gotta help with all the paperwork, learn the EPDs and the genetics of all those breeds, which was a lot of fun. I've always been really inclined to the genetics side of things. And, um, actually went back to work in a family business of real estate and development. I had uncles and, and aunts and my dad with his commercial banking background that all did something related to real estate pretty much at that time, either developing subdivisions, commercial, industrial building houses and all that. So I was able to go back, work with several of them in that business, grow my own cow herd, and then also became vice president of our local farm bureau at like 24 or something ridiculously young, was on the State Farm Bureau, uh, young farmer rancher committee real, real early. And, um, we raised lim and limb flex cattle at that time. So I, I actually replaced Jonathan Perry on the Georgia Limousine Association Board of Directors when he went up to Deer Valley.
Matt:Cool.
josh:And left Dormy Brothers down in Fitzgerald, Georgia for a little trip down memory lane for folks in the Southeast that remember all of that. And, um, so I've known Jonathan for a long time and basically I was got to a point where I was serving on so many volunteer capacities with so many different organizations related to ag and cattle, whether it was local, state, or national, that, uh, it just became apparent that some of my skills were translatable in other directions and that I should probably be doing something else. I felt definitely a sense of calling when a job came open at Georgia Cattleman's Association for their executive vice president role. Uh, I was in my, thirties at the time and, um.. The first PowerPoint I ever delivered in my life was the interview for that position to a board of directors and one of the guys around there said, that was the best presentation I've ever seen. I didn't tell him at the time, that was the first PowerPoint I had ever done, but, um, you know, the Lord was, was in it. So, um, it was a real blessing to transition to that, that, uh, role. So I served as executive VP of the Georgia Cattleman's Association and Beef Council for about five and a half years. Um. And then a similar situation. Uh, forest Roberts was the CEO of NCBA at the time. And of course, Georgia Cattlemen's and Beef Council. We worked a lot with our, as a state affiliate with the national folks. I had gotten to meet and, and grow, grew to, to know a lot of people at the national office. And, Dr. John Patterson, who led the producer ed team before me had gone part-time and they were looking to kind of restructure, revamp, really wanted to retool the department and I'd done a bit of a rebuild at Georgia Cattleman. And so I talked to Forest and he said, you need to interview for this job. We'd love to have you come out. And, you know, it was, it was another God thing. It just kind of fit and, um, got in there and, and Grace Webb, who's been with NCBA for well over 20 years was there. And, uh, JP, Dr. Patterson was kind of in and out. He was working remote part-time and they had just hired another employee to help with BQA.'cause Ryan Rupert, who for a long time kind of ran the BQA deal, had left. And so there were, there was one full-time person and a part-time person, and then me and then Chase the court who had just been hired, um, coming in. And so it was, it was a lot of fun. That was 11 years ago, roughly, and we got to rebuild that team and, and kinda try to catch a new, uh, a new hold, so to speak, with with BQA and Cattleman's College and all those other programs. So a lot of fun, great opportunity. And now there's about 12 of us on my team. So it's, it's really evolved over the years. That's awesome. And you and
Matt:I basically had a complete opposite, start in our professional careers coming outta animal science. And I've only known you since I got on BIF board however many years ago that was in Manhattan and worked with you since then. Some. But you started on the producer side and quickly into the volunteer leadership of, of Cattlemen's and farming organizations, and then moved to the staff side. I started on the staff of Pennsylvania Beef Council for a year, then American Angus for. What eight and then came back to the producer side and got involved just like you, when you're fresh meat coming back to rural America, you're gonna get thrown into every volunteer position that you're willing to take. That's right. Yeah. It's, I think both of those actually go hand in hand. And the reason you were able to do that PowerPoint and get the job, the first time you'd ever clicked down on the, on the screen or on the slides, was because all that work that you'd done in volunteer work. And I think that, um, probably the reason that I've gotten thrown into as many volunteer positions is because I saw the staff side first. Right. And I, I think those two are beneficial. And I think it's probably why you're so good at helping folks learn and find new ways to do a better job at the farms and ranches back home. And, and I think that that's something that. A lot of times, just like we started, we do a, we do an excellent job of asking how much rain somebody got down the road or asking what somebody's calves brought or weighed at the local livestock market or stockyards or sale barn, depending on the region. But we do a terrible job. My opinion as an industry saying, what have you learned lately? Have you figured out anything that'll make you better, that allows you to get more pounds of calf weaned to per cow exposed or whatever the, rubric or the, the measurement that we put on production and, and cost savings and things like this. My, not to editorialize too much, but my grandfather, Francis Perrier once said, probably not once, I think he said it a lot, but he said, when I go get a haircut, my barber has to have a license. I. When I go eat at the local cafe, they have to be licensed with some health department of some kind on a state or even federal level. Obviously the veterinarian has to have their licensure and everything else, but you can raise cattle or food or crops without so much as a requirement that you know, the front end from the back end. That's very true. He used to say, and I, I jokingly brought this up to Teagarden and some of them at KLA when I was serving in leadership there, Francis Perrier used to say, you ought to have to be licensed if you're gonna run a set of cows. Man, you talk about, yeah, some folks getting nervous and, and we can't do that. I don't want that, and I would never lobby for that. But I think his premise was if we're not asking questions and doing some quote unquote continuing education of some kind. We're probably not going to get much better. That's right. You can do it a lot of different ways. And that's the reason this podcast started, was to try to share some information for folks who frankly, maybe can't, or at least don't feel comfortable getting off the place, but they can sit in a pick up or on a horse or in a tractor and learn something from somebody. And I think you all have done a phenomenal job with that producer education component and beef quality assurance. I mean, your stockmanship and stewardship series and all these different things. I'd say 90 some percent of the cattlemen across the nation don't even realize those resources are available, much less available from the NCBA. You know, right there. So many times we, we have a little bit of a, um, connotation because of policy arms of NCBA or because of the checkoff side of, of the Cattleman's Beef Board and, and the contractor status that NCBA has with them. Your part of it from a producer ed standpoint is kind of like the Switzerland of NCBA. Yeah. Because it's, it's relevant for all of us, regardless if we are card carrying members or carrying the policy book in our back pocket. I mean, what you all do there is just awesome. And the information that you have, how do folks tap into that, whether they're a member or not? Do they have to be, and, and what do you provide there? I guess just for background?
josh:No, that's a great, uh, great open door. So I guess, yeah, I think your point is so well taken. Like stay curious and keep learning. Mm-hmm. I mean, if we could all do that, I think we would all be getting a lot better, I would say to editorialize myself a little bit that we have certainly. Yeah. Drifted into wanting to be uh, entertained a lot more Yeah. Than, than seeking out new knowledge and education and, and, um, you know, we've gotten a little lazy as a culture, I would say, in society, but, uh, there's a ton of opportunity. We have, many, many free or low cost options for people to plug in to get educational content. And so you mentioned kind of the two arms. Some of what my team works on is, policy funded or sponsored by a, you know, a sponsor that helps us fund that. And then some of what we work on is beef checkoff funded, namely the beef quality assurance program. Mm-hmm. Which you can go online right now and get certified for free. You can do that through a cow calf module, a feed yard module, or um, back stocker background or module. And then you already mentioned continuing ed for those that are certified and in our database, you have access now to a new continuing education platform for recertification. So a huge thing that we're really proud of, I don't want to talk just about that, but, so that's, that's one huge platform and opportunity. We also, of course, have done a webinar series now for about 10 years, and all of those are recorded and, and posted up on YouTube. so you can check out our webinar series, that's free. We have the stockmanship and stewardship program that you mentioned that travels the country and, um, we have stops coming up in. Well, it may have, it may have already happened by the time this airs, but we have one in South Dakota, one in Missouri, and one in Texas this year. And we just talked to, I mentioned Sunbelt Ag Expo. It was on my mind because we've just been talking to them about having Kurt Pate come down there to Moultrie, Georgia in October, and it looks like that's gonna work out so good. We'll be teaming up to offer some BQA content. Plus Curt Pate, who is a renowned horseman and stockman and cattle handler. He'll be doing sessions every day of Sunbelt for three days down there and do a little bit different stuff each day. So that's gonna be a lot of fun. And those are, uh, have a small registration fee to them. It depends on the location and how many meals we're feeding you and that kind of thing. But, um, we also have a program speaking of things that people don't know about or that they could, could utilize, um. I would really encourage people to check out. And that's our rancher resilience grant. Yeah. Um, going just, just pre COVID right on the front end of COVID, uh, Cargill reached out and had some money that they wanted to reinvest in rancher resilience and producer education. And so we set up a fund through our foundation, through a partnership that Cargill puts money in and we manage the process, um, that, you know, we will reimburse your hotel cost and registration fee for a lot of different events. Pretty much all of the Noble Research Institute events that they're doing around the country, around grazing and ranch management. Uh, the King Ranch events, all of our events like stockmanship and stewardship, the BIF symposium that we're at right now qualifies for it. Our annual convention, a lot of the breed association conventions, many of the state conventions. So check that out at uh, ncba.org. Go onto that tab that has the producer resources and you'll see all of our content. We've got lots of different things going on that I've already mentioned, but Rancher Resilience Grant, you can also just Google that NCBA Rancher Resilience Grant, and you'll get to that. It's a simple application. You select the, from a menu of upcoming events and hey, what better way to, uh, get back at the packer than have them pay you to go get some education? So, exactly. For those of, of course, right now, the, the cattle market's pretty dang good. Yeah. But, uh, but always I joke with people, you know, Hey, get Cargill, pay your hotel bill. That's, that's pretty cool.
Matt:Yeah, no doubt. And I mean, it's, especially as you look at where you all have the convention where BIF has its convention, I mean, even Amarillo, Texas, you know, downtown Amarillo Hotels, you're not gonna find'em for 87 95 a night. It, it's, it's pretty pricey to come to some of these, especially on a, on a fairly tight budget like most ranchers have. That's right. But when you can tap into something like that, ranchers Resilience grant, um. Yeah, it, it, it's a difference maker and, and I think a lot of folks I've tried to tell folks is they look at the price tag for NCBA Cattleman's College or for the hotel where we have NCBA type events. they get sticker shock and say, yeah. My education isn't worth that. You can see, I mean, just like kids can kind get a scholarship to make that education more attainable. It's a scholarship for ranchers to, to That's right.
josh:Further their education. Yeah. You have to complete a module, which there's a wide variety of modules that'll qualify either on the US roundtables platform that's a little sustainability oriented. We have a grazing management one, or you can go do some BQA stuff. So there is a little hoop to jump through. Then you need to take a picture to prove you went to the event, send it to us, and there's a little survey at the end. And then we send you a check. Like for our convention, it was over$2,000. Yeah, we reimbursed. So yeah, we wanna make sure people are actually attending the events before we, it is a reimbursement. Sure. But, uh, if you pull all the triggers and do your part to get it back to us, uh. The check will beat its way to your door before your credit card bill will hopefully from the, from taking the trip, that's the goal, or shortly thereafter. So that's, that's the deal. And we've still got some money in the, in the bucket there for at least another year or two that, and we're hoping Cargill will reinvest. It's been very successful. So. Good. That's awesome. That's a cool deal.
Matt:And, and I think they see the benefit, not just, you know, having an opportunity. Obviously, you know, companies are looking for donation opportunities when they need a tax write off or whatever else, but I think they also see that it pays them to have producers who can even do a better job, whether it be in genetics or health or whatever else. If, if we know how to make more money ourselves, we're probably gonna help them have a healthier product. Higher quality product to market and then make more money. I mean, this, this one beef concept that, uh, that has been thrown about by the likes of Dr. Dan Thompson and others, uh, it, it sounds all warm and fuzzy. Maybe it even sounds threatening to some that still want a segmented look to the beef industry in supply chain. But it's factual. I mean, gone are the days, in my opinion, where the only way we're gonna be profitable in our segment or on our ranch is to steal a profit from either the guy or gal before us that mismanaged cattle, or from the guy buying our cattle at the feed yard or at the packing plant or the retail level. Um, I, I think today we're seeing. Fetal programming and health of calves and colostrum at birth and all these different things that pay huge dividends way on down the line. Sure. They make the rancher money, they make the feed yard money, make the packer money, everybody wins.
josh:Yeah. Well, I mean, well managed cattle that'll get the job done or good for everybody and Yeah, and I think we're, you know, we've tried to push into some other areas past what we've talked about as kind of the, the core topics, but around risk management, you know, try to do, create more entry level risk management content because, gosh, with LRP available now, pasture range and forage, I mean, these are real difference makers for a lot of ranchers If they can figure out how to use some of these tools. We've got a big focus now. We've just started working more on transition planning and, uh, we were, we're working with Shannon Farrell, who was a keynote at our convention out of Oklahoma State, uh, to try to create some real entry level. You know, how do you have the, what are the right questions to ask? How do you start the conversation around succession planning? We know we're, we're typically not gonna be the deep dive, but we can at least try to help people get started and find the resources they need to move forward in some of these more difficult areas to think about. I mean, grazing management, I mentioned that we have a very entry level. Grazing management plan template now built out, and a module that tracks along with it biosecurity can get daunting and overwhelming. We have kind of an entry level module in the BQA platform around that and a, basic biosecurity plan template to get you started. We call it kind of the daily plan, not the full secure beef supply plan, which is very technical, but how do you get started? Um, and I think that's where, whether you're a beginning farmer or rancher or you're a genetics guy and you love genetics and maybe a little nutrition and repro, but all the rest of this stuff you'd rather not focus on. You know, that's a big challenge for a lot of operations that may be family based and have one or two people trying to do everything. Yep. We tend to, unless you're just highly disciplined and regimented, most people tend to drift to just focus on what they want to focus on and what they enjoy and, um, that kind keep learning. Stay curious mantra. Goes also to the things that you may not have a natural affinity to. How do you have the self-discipline to tackle some of those tougher topics?
Matt:Yeah. And those are the ones, and really any of these, but like you said, succession planning, you're not gonna go write that plan for them. Even your speakers aren't necessarily going to write that plan for them. But it starts the conversation either amongst them and the subsequent generation or the generation ahead of them, or even in their own mind. I, right. I'm guilty of when I stay at home on the ranch for months, even sometimes years at a time, I get to believe in my own bs. Yeah. And thinking that, ah, I can figure this out. Mm-hmm. I don't need, and when I go to a meeting like B-I-F-N-C-B-A or any of these events that we're talking about, even the drive there, especially the drive back, I get to thinking about things that maybe I didn't really even hear a speaker talk about, but it. Queued something else in my mind that, hey, I could really do a better job communicating with my family. Absolutely. Or our team member, or whatever the case may be. It may not have been even talked about, but it gets us out of that shell. And I think the toughest one, it's, I'm sure there's a quote that I'll screw up, but the first step of the journey is the hardest part. That's right. And I think once you go to one of these events, I don't care if it's a state Cattleman's regional farm tour, whatever the case may be, that first one gets you hooked and realized, okay, yeah, I'm, I may have missed being there to put that hay crop up that week, or I may have missed something. Um, but I gained so much more in terms of dollars that I can then make. Years down the road that it was worth it. Yeah.
josh:Challenging our own thinking. Yeah. Paradigms and, and, and again, pushing into areas that we are not naturally inclined to. Um, very, very important in my mind. I've, you know, I, I read so much, ag trade media and, and, uh, produce, you know, we produce a lot out of NCBA shop with our communications team. And, and I enjoy perusing the, the ag podcast and whatnot too, and have really enjoyed listening to Temple and, you know, Don Close and several other people on your podcast over, over the last few years. But I try to make it a point to go listen to business, podcasts or, you know, more spiritual, content, um, things that are outside of my day to day and things that will challenge my thinking and if possible from someone that I don't have much in common with. Yeah. Because we are definitely, guilty of getting in our own heads and our own echo chambers and, uh, how, how do we have some unique thoughts? There's nothing new under the sun. Right. And when you get into your own, into the ag community and then into the beef cattle community, and we have some great innovators and some great thinkers, but if, if we are going to. Challenge each other and, and get some new insight. We need to be trying to borrow some things from other industries, other expertises and other, other minds out there.
Matt:Yeah. It's not easy to do. And you just used the word uncomfortable. Um, I'm gonna switch stirrups here just for a bit. Um, one uncomfortable area that you have in your title is the S word. Not that S word, but sustainability. Sure. And that is one of those I got reminded the last couple of weeks because of an Angus association, uh, project, research project that brought sustainability and methane into the conversation. And while that particular research project was actually not on sustainability, it was on forage efficiency, but they just. Use methane to measure that and, and try to see if we can find cows that do more with less out there on pasture. But regardless, I would guess that the sustainability part of your job description may cause as much heartburn amongst ranchers as maybe anything else you do. Is that close or is that just what I hear in the highways and byways and back roads of, of Kansas that folks in rural America, me included, have lots of questions about when we get into climate discussions and sustainability because it's almost like we have to admit that we may have a problem in the beef industry. I don't, I don't believe that it's a problem the rest of the world does, in my opinion. I'm once again leading the witness here, but my opinion is the only way that we can truly tell our story about cattle's impact on climate change sustainability. Is to gather the data and have the conversations with the people who think that we're trying to kill them with methane or dust or Sure. Whatever the things may be. How do we get past that? Is that, do you hear or see the same thing? And if so, how do we get past this fear that if we talk about sustainability as cowboys, it's saying that we agree that we have a sustainability problem?
josh:Well, I think, um, to loosely quote a, a bible verse, you know, you need to always be prepared to give an answer, right? Mm-hmm. To defend. I think that's talking about faith, right? But, uh, and what you believe. But I think that it kind of applies to this. I mean, if, if we go back to the roots of it, it, you know, it was that livestocks long shadow report. Oh yeah. You know, pushing, what, 15 years ago now, maybe 20. That really threw the beef industry and livestock production under the bus. And, um, we know that that was inaccurate. That's long been debunked, but the stigma certainly in society, uh, and maybe more with, with sort of the, the more activist type mind Sure. Mindset folks, uh, that really wanted to do away with cattle production, maybe even for other reasons. Just latched onto I I think so. So I guess just to kind of back up to my thought process around this and, and when I was hired, I didn't have that word in my Sure title. Uh, it was a producer education team, and then I gained the sustainability over time. You,
Matt:you dreamt
josh:all this up because you were bored. Yeah. Yeah. Well, you know, I got asked to take, to take it on and help out with it. And I think that if I. Could kind of go back, and this has been my mantra the whole time, is if some of these entities, whether they're corporate or NGOs or whatever, quit caring about beef sustainability mm-hmm. Is some of the stuff that we've been working on, on our team and helping guide the industry toward useful anyway. Sure. Even if that word goes away, well, what you just talked about, more efficient cows on the range is good for us.
Matt:Mm-hmm. Great.
josh:Doing a better job with raising cattle and delivering a high quality product is always in our best interest. So let's just make sure that we're aligning the, this narrative with stuff that's good for us. And that's, that's our goal every day. And, and my team is just how can we help each other get better as producers and how can we, um, generate some value? And, and, you know, it's been quoted a million times, One of our past presidents at NCBA said, if you're, if you're not at the table, you're on the menu. Right. JD Alexander from Nebraska. So I think that's, that was also a early concept with NC B's volunteer rancher feeder membership, is that, you know, we've gotta be at the table and be preparing a defense for our industry. I would tend to agree with you that it's mostly been overblown our contribution to, to global warming, for instance, if you even believe that's a, a thing. Um, or climate change or whatnot. We know that there's a lot of other causes and whatnot, and we're, we're probably a tiny player in that. But I think one of the really cool things is that we can be part of the solution, and that's really where NCBA has evolved to over the years, is how do we, I mentioned grazing management earlier. You've mentioned grazing. You know, how do we continue to, to tell our story around how cattle are just, golly, they're a fascinating, amazing creature that rumen is just phenomenal fact that they can go out and eat all kinds of stuff, or even in a feed yard setting, eat mm-hmm. Stuff that would go in a landfill or somewhere and we can turn it into the amazing high quality beef that we have today is, is a terrific story to tell. It is a positive sustainability narrative and so we've, we've gotta do a better job of quantifying some of that to help make the case and of telling, you know, putting more of a story around it. But, um. Personally, I've never felt threatened around this topic. Um, I don't, I don't live in fear in general in my life. I'm a very proactive person and very positive person. I wake up in the morning ready to tackle the day, right? And for come from a positive mindset. I think cattle are amazing and I think we're part of the solution. And so that's always been my, my mindset around it. It's really not that complicated. Do a good job, better job every day if you can, raising your cattle, treat'em well, get BQA certified. Treat your help. Right? Improve your land. You're, you're sustainable, you know, and that's most ranchers.
Matt:Yeah. And that's, that is the irony of the whole thing. As we hear folks get up in arms about even having a discussion, even quote unquote being at that table instead of on that menu, as JD Alexander said, um I almost get this feeling, and I've, I've had people say this to me even in the last couple weeks. If we're talking about it, we're saying that we believe in it and we don't believe in it. I, I can think of all kinds of different metaphors of things that I address with neighbors, whether they're urban, suburban, rural, whatever the case may be. That discussion points come up and I give my 2 cents. I give my perspective on an issue that I really don't think is as that person. I'm talking with a thing, and yet if I walked away from that discussion, politics, religion, economics, whatever the case may be, if I walked away from that, what's the first thing they would think? Ooh, he's got something to hide. Sure. If he's saying he doesn't bel, he doesn't even want to talk about this. Obviously he is breaking the law, trying to kill me, try, you know, whatever the case may be, trying to take me over. And yet when I have the discussion. I may not change your mind, but they shrug their shoulders and say, okay, now I get it. Yeah. I see why, I mean, not agree with you, but I see why you feel like you, you have, and I, I think you've gotten to see this, you know, whether it be with the round table or all of these sustainability discussions kind of come from that early point when there was, there was no ranch, there were no ranchers in the room talking about sustainability early on. And now through you all your all's work and and so many others, now we have the seat at the table. And I would guess, well, let me ask you, do those retailers, do those non-government organizations that I still say are government organizations, they just don't, aren't written into the DC um, uh, laws, but do those folks. Have a better understanding of what farmers and ranchers do every day and are they less likely to put on carbon taxes and all these things that we worry about because of some of those discussions because they've shaken hands with a guy or a gal in a cowboy hat that has a little manure on their boots.
josh:Oh, absolutely. Yeah. We know, uh, that things have greatly improved and really, you know, trying to. Do a better job of connecting things like the Environmental Stewardship Award program.
Matt:Yeah, yeah. Which is awesome.
josh:Into more of the narrative around these things has just been a simple step that trying to help connect the dots because I mean, ESOP's been around for over 30 years. We've been talking about environmental stewardship in the beef industry and awarding ranchers around the country for their efforts for decades, for over 30 years. Yeah. I mean, this is not a new topic for us. And so BQA is another example. So when, when we do, uh, on behalf of the beef checkoff, you know, the folks on our consumer market research team ask consumers what they care about, even related to sustainability, it always comes back to animal welfare first. Yeah. The US consumer is not very sophisticated when it comes to connecting cattle production and, you know, climate change. So that's, you know. Very difficult to get a consumer to say, without aiding them, without telling them to be concerned about it, to start with. But they, they have pets. They've seen documentaries around some sort of agriculture that's, you know, perceived as factory farming or wrong or whatever, uh, animal abuse narratives and whatnot. So top of mind that trumps everything else. But then when we tell them, Hey, we've got a beef quality assurance program that's been around pushing 40 years now. Mm-hmm. And we've got over 200,000 farmers and ranchers that are actively certified today. Meaning they went through that program in the last three years. And then when we add dairy, it's another couple hundred thousand. Then we add the youth, it's another couple hundred thousand. So we've got pushing 600,000 individual certifications in the last three years, or the equivalent with dairy Man that. They're like, oh, you guys really do care. You're doing something about it. So yeah, we've, we have powerful narratives to share on this topic, uh, of doing the right thing. I think we've got to continue to, engage. Like I said, stay curious, keep learning. Um, for BQA, my mantra is get certified. And stay certified. Yeah. I mean, people again have wanted to complain about, well, I did that 20 years ago. I got certified. Yeah. I know how to get to graduate high school four times. Why do I have to keep going through this? Well, you don't. You don't have to do the same content anymore,
Matt:right?
josh:cause it's all new. If you hadn't been on there lately, you have no idea what you're missing. So yeah, it, it's not check it out. Just the
Matt:realize or demonstration of where to a shot.
josh:Go to an in-person training or, or come online. You'll have some, some new content. We just redid the BQA manual last year. It's a whole new animal. We did the module, the basic module's four years ago. But now we've got the CE platform with I think five or six different courses available and you only have to do two or three of them to get recertified. So, um, we've got facility design, we've got biosecurity. You can go ahead and work on your biosecurity plan and get CE credit for it. Our BQA transportation certification qualifies as CE continuing ed for BQA. So there's lots of opportunity. Uh, so get certified and stay certified.'cause that is probably the most powerful tool we have to legitimately tell our story today about how we raise cattle.
Matt:Yeah.
josh:It is the walk the walk so that you know the people that are trying to help us tell our story, right? Can talk the talk. We've gotta be doing the right thing. And bq A is how we prove it.
Matt:And the
josh:fact
Matt:that you've got all of those different options, you know, some of which don't even require you to leave the ranch are pretty powerful. Now I'm, I'm a little more extroverted and a little more social and I do a better job learning when I've got somebody else talking to me or with me. And, uh, so, you know, I I, I probably prefer doing something in person and I'm sure you probably prefer folks learning in person we than online. Yeah. But there is that option. And the nice thing about doing it in person, you hear or see something from that presenter and then you have a 15, 20 minute break or you have lunch and you sit down next to somebody you don't know from a different part of the world and you get to talking and you go, really, that's how you work calves or? That's the program that you have worked out with your vet. I need to have that conversation with my vet. And guess what, lo and behold, you see your pull rate reduced. You see your, you know, live cattle, uh, weaning rate rates increase. I mean, you make some money improve. I mean, it's just an investment.
josh:Improve, improve your quality of life, you know, I mean Exactly. Yeah. You make it easier. I love every time I get to be around Ron Gill, Kurt Pay. Mm-hmm. Deanan Fish. Oh, yeah. Uh, Todd or any of these guys that are just so good, I learn something. But one of my favorite things that, uh, you know, that, that Ron talks about is family relations. You know, you can, you can really improve your quality of life and your family relations if you'll pay a little bit of attention to facility design and cattle handling and, yeah, it's probably the source of more ridiculous, uh, oh my gosh. Communications fights, yeah. Arguments or whatever. People storming off mad than, than anything else. And so, well, you
Matt:can, in my opinion, and to echo, and I think I heard Kurt p it may have been Ron say this one time, and I lived it. Um, and I heard about it even worse, when my dad was a kid. But our family, I don't wanna say dreaded, but you knew that there was going to be some large stressor. Every time we had a big CalWork, something was gonna go wrong and you were kind of nervous about it leading up to it. And the closer you got, the more nervous you got. And that made the horses and the cattle and everybody else nervous when you can put into place the things, simple things that those guys teach in terms of cattle handling and facility design and all these things. Now everybody on the place can't wait. To go work. Cattle can't wait to get to do those things. And they happen without a hitch usually. Um, and when there is a hitch, there's not already this stressor leading up to it. Right. And so that's one of the many things that I remember Ron Gill saying, if, if you're dreading working cattle, something's wrong.
josh:You're doing it wrong. Exactly. Something, something's wrong. I think, uh, one of the smartest thing we did on our little outfit is just start, well, I mean, good grazing, rotational grazing, getting those cattle to move and being able to lead them where you want'em and stuff because they want to go where you're going'cause it's fresh grass. That helps a lot. Um, that, that does go hand in hand with good cattle handling, if you can. You get a little bit of training, but uh, then just kind of running the cattle through the, through the facility sometime when you're not working them. Mm-hmm. Especially your heifers as you're developing them. If you develop your own heifers, man, that makes a world of difference. Just kinda getting them used to the facility instead of, they only go through it every now and again, and when they do, it's under that high stress type environment. Uh, wow. Makes a huge difference. And I, we really started looking at that because we were AI and a lot of cattle and some work that Cliff Lamb had done when he was at Marianna, Florida. And, and, uh, he may have done some of that with Funston outta UNL, but you know, they started running their, uh, heifers or walking them probably is a better way to say it, through the facility a time or two before they AIed. And they compared that to a control that they had and their conception rates were phenomenally better. Wow. Uh, with the cattle that they had acclimated to that system. So. Yeah, pretty cool stuff. And I mean, AI conception rate's pretty important and you invest a lot of money in that deal. If you can just handle'em a little bit and get improvements, that's worth a lot.
Matt:Yeah. First time I heard somebody say that, I'm like, I don't have time to do that. That's one more time to the shoot. And then when you do that and realize that over the next two or three times through the shoot, you save a third, maybe half the amount of time, guess what? You spent two, three hours and didn't quote unquote do anything and then you saved six years. The lifetime of that cow, or 10 hours.
josh:Yeah, exactly. Really. Exactly. I mean, yeah, she works better. Yeah. And no doubt about it. I think, you know, maybe 5% better conception rate, let's just say that. Uh, yeah. I mean, so that'll, I don't remember the exact data, but it was, it was significant, statistically significant. So it probably had to be at least 5%. Yeah. And on today's market, that's a pile
Matt:of month. It adds up regardless of when you're selling them, it adds up. So the tie there that you made back 10 minutes ago with consumers looking at the word sustainability and going to welfare. The first time I saw that, I'm like, what are you talking about? I, I look at sustainability as a five and six generation ranch that sustained itself, which has a huge financial component, a pretty significant environmental component.'cause if you don't have the soil, if you don't have the grass, if you don't have the cows, you don't have anything. There are all these different things. But when I started hearing about animal welfare being part of the sustainability discussion, I'm like, that's crazy talk. And yet time and time again, that's the leading part from a consumer standpoint. They want the cattle to be handled right. And, and again, that's where we get to frame, I think I. What handling those cattle, right, is they, that consumer may think they know how they ought to be handled, but they quickly admit that they don't know. They may know something about their dog or cat at home, but when it comes time to talking about a 12, 13, 1800 pound animal, um, yeah, we get to have a huge impact on that. But that was surprising to me that that was even part of it. I know there, with the round table, you all went, spent a lot of time just defining what sustainability is for beef producers. Do you remember how that went and what that is today?'cause I think that bears repeating because that's, that's a big part of it. When we start throwing this big s word around, we have to know what it is a, that beef producers feel that sustainability is. And then of course, like you said, what consumers think it is.
josh:Yeah, I think it's important when you, we kinda shift gears and talk a little about the US Roundtable for Sustainable Beef. When you say roundtable yeah. I think that's what you're talking about, right? Correct. Yeah. Our team's engaged in that. I actually co-chaired the outreach working group for quite a while, which helped build out some of those modules that might be good to interact with for folks that are curious about it. But number one, that's multi-stakeholder. So we have all of the NGOs, the corporate types, you know, beef processors, retail food service, and feed yards and cow calf, you know, seed stock types there. So it's full supply chain. So it's definitely a different conversation there. Um, because the corporate, you know, reporting and corporate sustainability reports and all these things that didn't even used to exist exist. And so, you know that, that group. Decided that working on, um, animal welfare, health and welfare, um, worker safety and sort of their quality of life, the land management air and greenhouse gas stuff, you know, all of those were, uh, and then efficiency or profitability, they, they call it efficiency and yield because none of the corporates can actually talk about profitability because it becomes a, a problem for them with corporate governance and, and, uh, whatnot, legal issues. So farmers and ranchers can talk more profitability than the corporate types. But yeah, those are the key areas. I mean, I mentioned it before for ranchers, I think taking great care of the cattle, the land and the people, that's really the easiest way to describe it. because again, it's a different conversation when you get corporate. so yeah, I mean, it's, it is a big topic, but I. I think one of the best things about the US Roundtable is that it's multi-stakeholder and that everybody that's a member and that's engaged from every sector has a stake in it, and they have to come up with ways that they're going to do something about it. Um, which means it's not just people telling each other what to do. Each sector including cow calf or feed yard kind of comes up with their own goals, targets, definitions, what'll move the needle. Um, so it's been good. Now each can criticize the other and tell'em they need to be doing more or less sure or whatever, but it's always been lead, um, by sector. I mean one of the latest, coolest things that's come out of all that is a, a research roadmap that, that they've been working on. And I think that was really needed to help align corporate dollars and any government dollars or, you know. Foundation money, NGO money on things that'll move the needle and be helpful, uh, around grazing or feed yard management or how we actually calculate these things. I mean, there's still a lot of noise in the science of methane calculation when it comes to agriculture, so, um, certainly not a climate scientist. Um, so I'm, and I'm thankful for that. Yeah. But, uh, but there's still a lot of noise around that. To your point earlier, is it even an issue? What, how big is it? Well, it depends on how you calculate it and how you look at it. So those are all very important conversations to have. And then I think, again, for cowboys and seed stock guys, or anybody in the cattle business, it's. It's just good stewardship and getting better each day. Back to, I pulled that slide up while you were talking a minute ago, so I didn't misquote this. But back to that animal welfare and sustainability connection. So our data from 2024 when we probed on beef and sustainability, we asked, um, thousands of consumers, which of the following are the most important to address when it comes to beef and sustainability? So that's the question.
Matt:Okay.
josh:And we gave them a laundry list of about 10 things. Number one on the list at 55%, consumers report animal welfare as the key topic related to beef and sustainability. The next highest that relates to cattle production is land use at 28%. Wow. Interesting. So welfare almost doubled it. Yeah.. Beef affordability is in there.'cause that interests consumers. Right? That's especially in between the two. They usually don't admit it at 46%. So that was really high. But land 28% water use 27%. And then climate change in fifth at 26%. So again, animal welfare trumps the rest big time. And so again, you can do something about it. Get certified. Stay certified. That's, that's the best thing you can do from a practical standpoint today. And how we tell our story on beef sustainability. Yeah.
Matt:And you know, it's, it's incredibly interesting to me that we, we, we've gotten on this whole sustainability discussion. In my opinion, we got the cart ahead of the horse and the consumer, the world. This discussion of global warming, acid rain, now, climate change, you know, all through the history there've been these fears and these fear mongers, and they've shaped the narrative way before ranchers even started talking about it. But if we stepped back and threw all the buzzwords out, methane, climate change, sustainability, green, you know, all these different things, and just said, are you as a rancher focused on taking care of your family and your crew and your cattle and your grass, and your soil and your wildlife? I can't think of one single farmer rancher in the United States who wouldn't say, yeah, why wouldn't I be? If I don't do that, my, my goal every day, and I guess there might be somebody out there that says, I just wanna rape and pillage the environment and get all that I can and never have an opportunity for my son or daughter if they want to, to come and take this ranch over. Maybe there's somebody out there, the Ebenezer
josh:screwed, just Yeah. Farming and ranching. I've never
Matt:met him. I honestly, I mean, I don't do things the same way that all my neighbors do. I'm, they may question me, I may question them, but I've never met anybody who didn't have in their goal somewhere deep inside of making sure that this place could carry on after I'm gone. That's sustainability and every single one of us want that. Yeah. And yet the way sustainability got framed and handed to us years ago makes us kind of defensive, very defensive, and, and it's, it's ironic to me, I can't think of an industry, and I've said this before, I can't think of one industry that is, has proven itself more sustainability than production, agriculture. How many other businesses? You know, there may be a few restaurants, there may be a few heating and cooling and tire shops. There may be a few small businesses that say, yeah, I'm a, I'm the third generation to own this place, but not very many. And you go to farms and ranches across this nation and that's the first thing they say. I'm a third generation, I'm a fifth generation. I'm a seventh generation cattleman. Right. That's what drives us. And you don't get to be that if you're not taking care of the land and your people and the resources. Yeah. Very true. We've got as good of a sustainability message as anybody around. It's just that we're scared to death to talk about it.
josh:Yeah, and I think, so just a couple of more thoughts around this, this area with consumers, number one, you know, how many of our audience really wants to understand how a, uh, computer is programmed? Yeah, no, and I mean, let's tell our story about compu, you know, computer programmers of the wor world tell your story. So let's, let's remember that Yeah. Consumers, quote unquote need to understand, well, you know, some of'em just want to buy good beef and really don't care how it gets to'em. So I think sometimes we, again, in our own echo chamber, we oversell it to ourselves about how we need to get out there and tell our story. I went ahead and pulled up the numbers For another one that we ask all the time on our consumer beef tracker for the beef checkoff. Um, what are, you know, do you have concerns about how cattle are raised for food? 66% of consumers in 2024 said they don't have a concern or they're not sure if they have a concern. So two thirds of people that are eating beef don't have a concern Yeah. That they can elucidate. And so I just think we need to remember that too. I mean, beef demand is through the freaking roof. Mm-hmm. And two thirds of consumers don't have a concern about how cattle are raised. So that's the majority. Right. When we get into concerns, again, it's animal welfare, it's, it's how we take care of the cattle on the cattle health side, primarily with antibiotics, hormones, vaccines, food safety, that kind of thing. And all of that ties back to their own health. Yeah. So I think whenever we're talking about these issues, we need to say what. Is in it for the consumer. And that's another good plug for BQA because what's the whole focus of that beef quality? Well, what are they consuming? The beef. Yeah. So when we say we take really great care of our cattle and it yields a high quality, safe product that you can enjoy, bingo. Yep. That's what consumers want to hear. You're doing the right thing on your place, great. But what are you doing to deliver me a high quality product while taking good care of the cattle in the land? So I think that's important too, to, to remember to connect the two when we're thinking about how we might want to talk to consumers. I mean, a lot of consumers say they know how cattle are raised. They, they really don't. Yeah. We have to remember that most consumers are in urban, suburban. Settings. And most of them are 3, 4, 5, 6 generations removed from farming and ranching now, uh, especially the younger ones. And so, we go really complicated really fast too. Like, we want to jump to antibiotics and hormones. Yeah. Well, heck, they don't even know what that means. Most consumers, they, they don't even understand what a cow calf operation is. They think a lot of them are thinking they're stuck in a feed yard from the time they're born. Sure. You know, they don't understand the production system. So start simple and, um, just describe the care that you have for the animals and how, how it works if they're curious. But most, yeah. We have a lot of misconceptions. Just like they do. Yeah. About, about that consumer audience.
Matt:I'm as guilty as anybody.'cause when we first started into this whole. You know, telling our story, 15, 20 years ago, Amy and I were, we were studying the facts. Every time we went and did a beef demo or talked to consumers, we wanted to be able to tell'em exactly how many grams of zinc or iron or protein or whatever else. And finally, this PR person, when we were on one back east, she said, look, nobody really wants to be educated about this. They just wanna know that you give a dang, they wanna put a face with the steak and somebody that acts and makes them feel confident of what, that you're not trying to kill'em, that you're trying to do this and do it better every day. And, and, and that's all it comes down to. They want to know that you care and that you're trying to get better. And generally speaking. That's enough
josh:and that you care about the end product and their experience. Sure. Yeah. And I, I think that's, that's what they're after. That's some of the secret sauce of the Angus deal is that you guys connected the end product to what you were trying to do on the genetic side really early with CAB. Right. So it, it became a product focused breed in product focus. So you, you had a leg up, to a lot of other, you know, just almost ingrained in the mindset of raising cattle because of CAB has helped you a lot, I think, in your mindset, but Yeah, I think more effective would've been to say, you know, I get up in the morning, get on a horse or on a side by side and go check water and look at the cattle every day. That would've meant more to them mm-hmm. Than the zinc, iron and protein message. Yeah. Because they, yeah. They want to hear about how you are investing in your operation and then tell'em, you know, I care about the cattle because I want you to have a high quality eating experience. Um, that's the secret sauce. Yeah. Well, I, I think.
Matt:Kind of to tie a bow on this, I think whether we're talking with consumers or whether you're helping put on, you know, stockmanship and stewardship or BQA or whatever educational events within the beef community, I, I looked up, and of course there's lots of different versions of this, but your paraphrase was, you need to be prepared to give an answer from a Bible verse. Here's what it says, first Peter, chapter three, verse 15 to 17. Always be ready to answer everyone who asks you to explain about the hope you have, but answer in a gentle way and with respect, keep a clear conscience so that those who speak evil of your good life in Christ will be made ashamed. I mean, there's nothing ever wrong with, he nailed it, but that's, yeah,
josh:there's no, nothing ever wrong with doing the right thing and then telling the truth about it.
Matt:Yeah, exactly. Whether we're talking with the neighbor. Or on Facebook or with the consumer or whomever. I mean, I think that plays well just like these programs that you and through NCBA involvement and everything else are trying to bring to us. So yeah, it, it can be a phenomenal story, but we have to be prepared to give that answer and explain about the hope we have.
josh:That's right.
Matt:All right, Josh, thank you a bunch. Uh, looking forward to a good meeting this week. And, I'll make sure and put in the notes some of your contact information, maybe a website that we'll get them to all these different educational opportunities that you work with. And, um, yeah, hopefully we can continue through all avenues to continue to tell that story and educate ourselves so we're ready to give that answer.
josh:Yeah, well. Appreciate being on and look forward to meeting some of your listeners out at Cattle Con in Nashville next spring or at one of these stockmanship and stewardship events. So it'd be great. Yeah, always a pleasure.
Matt:Alright, thanks so bunch Josh. Good to see you.
Thanks for tuning in to Practically Ranching, brought to you by Dalebanks Angus. If you like this show, share it with someone else. Give us a five star review and a comment so we can keep cranking'em out. We'll be offering a nice set of fall calving registered Dalebanks bred cows at private treaty this summer. So call, text or email me for information on these cows. Have a great summer. Be sure to get our annual bull sale on your calendar. November 22nd, 2025. God bless you all, and we'll talk again soon.
