Carolyn Perrier

Carolyn Perrier is a ranch wife, mother of three and grandmother of nine. She is a servant in her community, a leader for countless organizations through the years, and most importantly... my mom. 

On this episode, we talk about her journey from city to country life and the countless challenges and blessings along the way.

Past episode mentions:

Tom Perrier https://www.buzzsprout.com/1995747/episodes/12299829

Symphony in the Flint Hills https://www.buzzsprout.com/1995747/episodes/12898676

Transcript

0:05

Hello there, and thank you for joining me once again for this week's episode number 82 of Practically Ranching. I'm your host, Matt Perrier, and we are here thanks to Dalebanks Angus, your home for practical profitable genetics since 1904, We've kicked off a new year here and with this first episode of 2026, I'm going to once again exhibit a bit of nepotism. This week's guest is more than just a ranch mom or farm wife or matriarch of a Flint Hills family. She's my mom, Carolyn Perrier. Honestly, this wasn't my idea, but when it was brought up to me, I thought it was a great one. A friend of mine by the name of Karen Hibbard, who is a loyal listener of the podcast and her husband, Gordon, has been on here, and someday she may even get arm wrestled into it. She came to me with this idea a few months ago and she said, Matt, I've got an idea for a topic for practically ranching. It's just gonna be great. And I've got a person in mind too, and I said, okay, what are you thinking? Well, you need to talk with ranch families and young people who are trying to decide about coming back to rural America and talk about the transition from an urban or suburban way of life into rural Kansas or rural America. And I've got somebody that I think would be really good. I said, I, I agree. Let's, let's have it. And Karen cuts a pretty wide swath and she has a pretty large network. And so I was trying to decide who it was that she may have been talking about. She kind of got this grin and she said, your mom, Carolyn Perrier. And so I chuckled a bit and then I said, you know what? I think you're right. So I'm not going to get in mom's way and tell any of her story. I'm gonna let her do it. But, um, as I always do when I'm recording these podcasts with somebody that I know, I actually learned quite a bit over the next hour of this conversation, just like I think you will as well and enjoyed every bit of it. You know, three and a half, four years ago when we started this podcast, I envisioned these really deep discussions about hot topics and trends and maybe some edgy stuff that was gonna make some people uncertain or unhappy or uncomfortable. But we were gonna really solve some problems in the industry and, and we still do some of those and we're gonna continue to do some. But honestly, the episodes that folks tell me they like the best are ones just like this one that are a little bit more personal, a little more raw, a little more homey, and this one I think fits very well into that category. It was a fun one for me to record, and I think it's gonna be a fun one for you to hear as I visit with my mom, Carolyn Perrier. So I, I don't usually do this, but since I am related to this guest today, I'm gonna ask you to give the folks that are listening a little bit of a background on how in the world you ended up in Eureka, Kansas, USA. And that is kind of interesting. I grew up in Kansas City, Missouri and went to K State, Kansas State University. And my sophomore year, I, was. Asked to go to a party and meet someone in the Sig Ep house after a play that we'd done. And, uh, he wasn't in the cast, but some of us kind of were, and we wanted to go to the cast party. That's when I met Tom and uh, I realized that he was from a ranch and I had had a favorite uncle, my mother's youngest brother, who kept teasing me that I was gonna end up with a farm boy when I went to Kansas State. And I assured him there were many more engineers at Kansas State than there were farm boys. And it became kind of a running joke between the two of us. So. Here I was having a good time and um, that was our sophomore year and we continued to date while we were both at K State. So was this Farm boy, Tom Perrier? Oh, this farm boy. Was Tom Perrier? Yes. Wanted be sure yes. Wanted to be sure. Yes. And my uncle is deceased now, but he never, ever quit teasing me about his prophecy. Yep. He, uh, he was very proud of that. Uncle Bob was. Yeah. So you met there your sophomore year and then where From K State dated throughout K State, kind of off and on. Dated off and on throughout K State. Yes. And then several of my sorority sisters wanted to go to Denver and teach, and actually in the mid sixties that was about the only opportunity for women. I look at the careers the girls have now and it's mind boggling. But, um, nursing and teaching was what most of my friends were entering into. Anyway, there was a, a big need for teachers in Denver area and Jefferson County, which was west of Denver, we're building schools as fast as they could. And they actually have had recruiters that came to K State. And a lot of us got our jobs in January or so our senior year. And of course that didn't help the Kansas schools out any'cause they didn't, um, weren't able to get recruiters and come to the college campuses. Like these bigger school systems were coming, but it was actually the beginning of the baby boomers going to. Uh, needing schools and lots of schools were built. And, uh, in 67 is when I graduated. So we were all going to Jefferson County and, and be career teachers off. We went ski bums, Uhhuh. Yeah. Drink Coors Beer that you couldn't buy in Kansas. And actually in I, um, my first job was in Golden Junior High and the Coors Brewery had a, um, hospitality room. And after the first PTA meeting, we had a really good time. And I told my... later when I did get married and came to Kansas, I told some of the Kansas teachers what the PTA meetings were like in Golden. And they couldn't believe it. I'd say anyone who sat through a PTA meeting on either side of the, Equation has needed to go to a hospitality night at Coors. Brilliant. Afterwards. It was really fun. So did you have the PTA meeting at Coors or you went there after hours? Oh, the PTA meeting was at the junior high. Okay. At the school. And then, and then we were invited to the hospitality room. Yeah. And it wasn't very far. It was a couple blocks from the high school. From the junior high. That's good. Good stuff. So golden afterwards. How serious were you and dad? Were you, and were you serious enough that you were talking where we're gonna live when we get married? Or was it still We were still. Dating. Okay. And actually he was at Fort Leonard Wood. So, he had plans, uh, and had been, uh, accepted to go to grad school at university of Maryland. But then his draft board wouldn't let him go, basically. And it was mid sixties, it was 1967 and everybody had to serve their military obligation'cause of Vietnam, because of Vietnam. And so he, um, got in the Eureka National Guard, with the idea that he'd do his basic training and then go on to, grad school and. Uh, I, it just wasn't gonna work out that he was told it would work out, but he um, realized that when he was in basic training that he wasn't gonna go to grad school. They weren't gonna allow him'cause he had obligations to the guard after he, for I think it was six years. And I think dad's already been on the podcast. I think we maybe have have touched on that one. And so if anybody wants that full story, they can go back a few episodes. But I want to know when he figured that out. When you all figured out that instead of his plan after Kansas State to be a college professor, researcher of some kind, he realized I'm probably instead gonna be a farmer rancher in Greenwood County, Kansas. And yes, I think he, he had that figured out when he got out of basic training. But I, I was in Jefferson County having fun with my friends and, and did not realize that he had changed his mind. You mean he didn't communicate that well to you? I can't, I just can't imagine communication. Well, there were, you couldn't call'cause you didn't call long distance unless somebody died. What about a text? And there were no texts and letters were our means of communication pretty much that for,, that, so he had figured it out and then he shared that with you at some point in the future. Uh, where did your mind go when you found out that if you stayed with this Tom Perrier guy, you may end up in the Flint Hills of Kansas instead of some college town as the wife of a professor? Well, yeah,, the fact that he, he had changed his mind and was going to do something else, did come up, but it was okay. I, I had cut. My parents were both from, rural Missouri. Um, my mother's family's in, was in southwest Missouri, and my father was in northwest Missouri on a farm, and they both went to Kansas City for jobs. Sure. And, um, then did not return to, to their farming communities. So I had cousins. I had more on my mother's side because, my father's farm had been sold when, at the end of World War ii he determined he was going back to his job in Kansas City, Missouri wasn't interested. He was an only child. So. That farm had been sold, uh, by the time shortly after I was born actually. Probably the spring of 46 my father's family farm was sold. Mm-hmm. So you figured that since you had cousins who'd grown up on a farm and you'd been there for family reunions and dinners and everything else, spent some summer weeks, we'd usually go down and my mother and brother and I for a week would spend a week with my grandmother. So it wouldn't be that tough of a transition, right? You thought? I thought, I thought, yes. Okay. And so, and they, but now I knew it'd be a little different because they were dairy farmers and they had jersey cattle and I really wasn't used to, um, beef cattle. Yeah, exactly. So let's fast forward to you and dad get married. You move to, well, that's an interesting story too. Okay, so let's back up and do that one because we dad told us about the shotgun wedding. Well, oh, that's right. In his pocket. And he didn't exactly explain that, but that was an army shotgun wedding. Alright. But, uh, again, it's nine by now, it's 1968 and things are heating up in, in Vietnam. And, and, um, we were going to get married in July. I resigned from my one year teaching position in Golden Junior High. And, we were making plans and all of a sudden in April, his guard unit was called up and they were to go to fort Campbell, Kentucky, I think, and no, dependents would be allowed to go with him. So it was looking pretty dreary. We, uh, found this out as he was talking to the sergeant, uh, in charge of the Eureka unit because he was trying to find out when his guard weekend would be in July.'cause uh, this is funny too, when we were trying to plan a wedding day, he told me we'd have to get married after harvest and before the county fair. So we'd have to get ready in July. And I really thought he was kidding. I started laughing. I thought he was joking around with me, but it's not a joke. But she was serious. You don't joke about wheat harvesting the county fair. No, we can't joke about That's with, so that was an eyeopening experience that my wedding, our wedding had to be, uh, planned between the end of Wheat harvest and the county fair. This does not seem odd at all to me. Oh, okay. Well, it was very strange to me. It doesn't seem odd to you today. Does it today. I understand. But then I really thought he was joking with me, but that was the way it was gonna be. So that was a kind of a eye-opening thing right here. The cousins, the cousins in southwest Missouri didn't, uh, tell you about that? No. One of the many things. One of the many things. Okay. So proceed. But we, we had, uh, had a deck. Well, we were trying to get this date, you know, down and, um, between Wheat Harvest and the county fair, right? Sometime in July. And I think we actually had a weekend as long as that wasn't Guard weekend that we were gonna get married. So when he was calling to ascertain for sure what the date would be, the sergeant said, I'm gonna tell you this, it's gonna come out in the news later this afternoon, but our guard, our unit has been called up and we will report for active duty on, I think it was like May 13th or something like that. So I was teaching, um, what do we do, you know, do we just forget getting married until the guard unit comes back? And so there was about a week period that it was, it was pretty. You know, tense. Sure. I mean, what are we gonna do? Sure. So, because we are planners. We are planners, we are. And so it all turned out that instead of, um, a Kansas City wedding or Prairie Village wedding, by this time my folks had moved to Johnson County. So, um, instead of that wedding, we could get married in Eureka because that church was available. Of course it was. They, they had no problem. And I think the Catholic churches in Johnson County were booked Sure. Quite far in advance. So, um, it necessitated another change. I didn't really know anybody in Eureka except for Tom's relatives. Tom's brother and his wife. Mm-hmm. He had two brothers and wives that were living in Eureka about that time. But, um, so start to finish. He proposed, you decided when you were going to be married, and then when you found out that he was getting called up in late May, how soon did you get this wedding planned in Eureka? Uh, about 10 days, because we were in the middle of April by now, and the wedding was gonna be May 4th. So it, it was a while. And I, I'm tea, I'm running to school every day teaching. Yeah. You know, but my gonna the Coors Brewery tour after PTA meetings and the like. Right. You probably had to cut those back for those 10 days. Had, yeah, I, I didn't get to go to Coors Hospitality Room, uh, that that month. But, um, anyway, it was kind of wild. And necessitated back then you made your, bridesmaids dresses. Oh, yeah. And so I, my roommate in Denver was gonna be one of the bridesmaids, well, I by then had a sewing machine and I could make her dress. And then one of my other, um, Bri or maid of honor couldn't come. Her husband was stationed in Dover, Delaware, and they just couldn't fly and they just couldn't make arrangements to be that quick, that quick. Sure. So she bailed, but her parents had a movie camera and they took very good videos of the wedding so that their daughter Jane could see it. And I. Uh, suddenly had a, a matron of honor that was going to be my sister-in-law and her husband was working on the ranch with, the family. And they had gotten married about two years before in this same church. And, we ended up doing the cake with a lady that made the cake for her and Chuck's wedding. And, and we had, I think the flowers, she suggested the flowers, um, the music. I was trying to think of a certain song, but I knew that, that, that I wasn't Catholic too. This is another big problem with this relationship, but I knew that Catholics couldn't have some of the same music that. Protestants had. Yeah. Like here comes the bride was one of'em I knew was out, but I couldn't think of the one I really wanted. But, there was a man named Henry, Henry Francis Oh, wonderful. Organist, who was an organist for the Lutheran church. And she had him, she pretty much had him, uh, take care of, of the music. And there was that song when I started down the aisle, he played it and I couldn't even think of the name of it. So we were good. It's like God was in the church. It, God was helping us out a bunch. Imagine, imagine that. Imagine that. So anyway, we got through there. Let's see, the church had rented their school to the public schools. So there was no place for a reception. We were gonna go to the country club for a reception, but it was prom night and they were using the country club for the high school prom. So that was out. It, there was just lots of things. And, my sister-in-law at the time took care of all this stuff. I don't know how she did. She was teaching too. So how long in Eureka, so how long at that time had you known Sue, your sister-in-law? Oh, I just maybe met her a couple of times, you know, met her at, at, maybe Christmas. I was here. Easter I was here. Okay. Yeah. That part's interesting too. Yes. Oh, it gets very interesting. But she was just having a ball. Yeah. Great. And she had a lot of friends in the area and they were all helping. Good. I had one friend from college that actually had recently gotten the job as a home ec teacher in, uh, Eureka Senior High. And she had the high school, girls make the little rice bags, things you had to have for a wedding that I didn't have time to do. I neglected to say my mother had passed away within a year before this, so I didn't have that source, so everybody just took me in. That was one thing I really loved about Eureka, that everyone was so friendly and kind and. And, um, wanting to help in this army shotgun wedding. The shotgun wedding. So you get the shotgun wedding planned, taken care of, and you walk outta the church to start your new life with this farm kid Tom Perrier. And tell me the first site that you have as you come to the Getaway car. Another welcome to Eureka. Um, he had a very good friend who was also in this guard unit who we were going to hang out with when we all uh, got to, or I forgot to tell you, by the time we got married, they changed, the army does this, they changed the location they were sending, the Eureka unit they were going to of all places. Fort Carson in Colorado Springs, Colorado. And it, it was another, it was almost a God thing, you know? It's like, I'd say once Oh, and, and dependents could go,'cause Fort Carson had plenty of room. But you'd already quit at Golden, right? I'd resigned. Okay. A month or two before that. So I couldn't keep my Golden job.'cause I'm sure they'd already hired somebody else. All right, so full circle moment, you're going back to Colorado. Not because you were there, but because Uncle Sam said that's where Tom's gonna be stationed. And so then it was all right.'cause I thought I was going to go live at my dad's in Prairie Village. Oh, okay. And,. Then, you know, it was like, well, this is gonna be lots better. I mean, a honeymoon in Colorado Springs for 18 months wasn't bad. But, anyway, when we got out of the church or out of, oh, the, the, a reception was at the Baptist Church social area across the street from the Catholic church, which was okay'cause a lot of my relatives were Baptists and, and they felt very comfortable. Then at, at the Uncle Bob and Aunt Janet were tickled tickle pig. The, the ones that predicted this four years before, we're now at Baptist Church Basement for the, uh, reception. No wonder our family is so ecumenical. And it is, it, it's a good thing. Yes. That's good. That's good. But, when we got out of the reception, his good friend and classmate had smeared manure all over his, our car that we were, I mean, we couldn't even see out of the windshield where I've seen a picture of this, but please, so people listening in can understand where did the manure come from? How fresh was it? It was pretty fresh and I'm not sure where he got it. I think, at least this is the story that I remember. He came out to Dalebanks Angus Bull Development Yard and got a scoop and brought it in and dumped it on the car. Okay. Well, I I wouldn't put it and it was wet. It was fresh enough, it was smelly. It, I know that. It was like he's ruined the car and so that was, we took off and actually went to the bull development spot and got a hose and cleaned it up before we went any place else. Awesome. All right, so there's your next, welcome to Eureka. So you go honeymoon, you go live in Glenwood Springs, Colorado. Colorado Springs. Mm-hmm. Well, I had to finish school. I had to go back and finish. Oh, school went through, um, about the first week of June. So after my principal was really, really a good guy. I had two personal days coming'cause I hadn't used them for the whole year. And he said, and then you're not gonna feel well after, having to leave your husband or your husband going off to army So. W let's give you three days of sick leave. So that gave a, a whole week then for a honeymoon, because nobody got a week vacation on their first year. No. And back then, no. And now we start, well, you had two personal days. Two personal days, not took two personal weeks for you young kids. I took, so I took my two personal today and three sick days. I hadn't taken any sick days either. I'd been pretty healthy. Yeah. So even with all those trips to the Coors Hospitality room, right? Yeah. And, and one or two ski trips too. All right. So year and a half in Colorado Springs. It actually ended up, we got early outs. They didn't need'em anymore. They'd taken the officers, and they, a lot of them went on to Vietnam. But Tom's rank, they didn't need, they had plenty of, of the lower ranks. Okay. Because he was brand new. He was A PFC. Yeah. When we got there. So back to Eureka in mm-hmm. 70. It was 69. Six nine. August of 69. Oh six nine. Okay. And then what I did get, um, it, it seemed that that was the first year of, consolidation. And they decided school district consolidation, the school district in Eureka to have a junior high. And they hadn't had a junior high, so they needed a junior high home EC teacher. I mean, you had to have home ec in, in public schools. And the senior high home EC couldn't handle both of them. So, I got to have three sections, or three classes of home economics for just the eighth and ninth graders. They didn't start the seventh graders yet. And then I had to have, um, three other classes. So they gave me, uh, language arts and I didn't quite have enough hours to teach language arts, but I took some summer school, uh, before we came back in August. So I was able to teach. So you taught for three, four years before I came along. I just taught for two, two years. Years. Yeah. And it was, couldn't remember when I was born. It, it was, it became, uh, obvious that they needed, they needed a gopher around here be, and they needed someone, to kind of help out. Tom's brother was the other person along with his father who were, we were working altogether and, His wife had some health issues and so they came to me and said, if you'd stay home, then you could help her with and with their two children, and then if we need parts and all that. Believe me, it was a lot different than now because there was no UPS, there was no FedEx, nobody brought you parts. You just, and as some parts places were closing here in Eureka, then you'd have to go farther for those parts. So when you quit the school district and came to work for Dalebanks, Angus, what was your job description besides running for parts? Pretty much go for anything that needed. If they needed an extra person to drive a pickup and, and lead cattle somewhere, we did a lot of, you know, I let the feed out. for moving cattle,, uh, working cattle, just whenever they needed something, they'd call, can you come help us? That was, that was my, I called myself the ranch gopher. So if you compared transitions, let's throw'em all out. Transition from Kansas City to Kansas State, transition from Kansas State to first job in Golden Colorado. Transition to marriage. Transition to Eureka, and then transition from eight 30 to three 30 teaching to Ranch Gopher. Which is the, which was the most difficult? Oh my, that's a good question. I, I think. Yeah, probably transitioned to living in a small town. Yeah. Because it became apparent that you didn't like, say anything about anybody because you were probably talking to their cousin or somebody and, and you didn't know they were related. You surely did. So that was a big thing. And as a teacher, I didn't know many people unless they had kids in my class or they were teachers on the staff. And, uh, I didn't know anybody. And so I realized right away that you can't really talk about something you saw or did. Did you learn that lesson the hard way? Pretty much so, yes. Is there, do we need to broadcast that story and what, once in a while, um, you know, it, it, you almost forget. I try to, now I, I think I now know most of the family trees of my age group Anyway, people I'd be talking to. But, um, there's a lot of new younger families that I don't know anything about or, well, most might say that they still haven't forked much more since then. Okay. So you're, you're still, if you knew that pedigree, you still know that was, but I will say at the time I arrived in Eureka, they had all the streets. I mean, main Street had, all the stores were open. Sure. And we didn't really go like to Wichita much. I mean, it was, you pretty much could get everything you needed right here. So is that why we didn't ever leave the county limits or was it just that we didn't have the, I mean, and I say we, yeah collectively, everybody in the county in ranching and farming, we didn't go anywhere. We didn't go out and eat. I mean, we didn't go out to eat much. Yeah. Is it just a cultural shift or is it an economic shift of having more cash flow in most families today? Probably both. But we, you know, there were a lot of people that went out to eat a lot, but uh, it didn't seem like our family did it. We were a little farther from town. It took longer. When we lived,'cause we started out, we were se you know, seven and a half miles from Eureka. My kids would say that that family culture hasn't changed. We still don't go out to eat enough. That's what I was gonna say. You guys eat at home quite a bit too. That's right. But it was a little, but I think a lot of it was there. We just didn't have the money. A lot of the friends that we made were through organizations in town particularly young farmer and ranchers in, um, the, um, Kansas Farm Bureau organization in our county. We had a large group that were about our age and when there would be A-Y-F-N-R conference, they'd actually have, uh, the county would only pay for six couples to go to the conference. They just determined their budget they couldn't pay for hotels for more than six. So we kind of alternate which six got to go. Now that sounds wild now that there would've been that many Yeah. Now couples, but that was one to go our big nights out are big things to get to do was something like a YF&R conference. So I even remember more local than that. It was a big deal for Greenwood County Cattleman's Day and the, conservation banquet and the spring cattleman's meeting. I mean, those were the only times y'all out for dinner and, and sometimes us kids got to come along and other times we had Right pizza at home and stayed. I can remember. When did that change? When did you see Farm and Ranch couples go from thinking, oh, I can't wait, because Cattleman's Day is just two weeks away and we finally get to go out and have a good time. Well, when you have a new dress for Cattleman's stick, there you go. And a lot of us made ours. We got to go, when did it switch and say, there's surely something else that I can do besides going to x, Y, z local Cattleman's banquet. And, why? I think the eight seventies and eighties were when that was our big entertainment. Yeah. And it seemed like after the eighties, a a lot of the, the difference was we were laughing about it, uh, just a month or so ago. Farm Bureau annual meeting, all the women cooked the food. And you, you were there all day at Memorial Hall and somebody of course had to be the person in charge. I never did that, but we would spend all day and now annual meeting, it doesn't have that many people, but, it's catered. Somebody brings all that food in because in the eighties, a lot of the farm wives went to work and had that paycheck and they, they didn't have the labor available Yeah. To fix that farm bureau annual meeting dinner. So it was probably a confluence of several different things, but a less time because the spouse was now working a, a fulltime job, or at least a working time, big job. And B, the spouse was probably making enough money that. They had something to spend on dinner if they paid somebody else to make a catered dinner or they went to Wichita or whatever, and then you'd hear somebody talk about, oh, we had a great time, we went someplace in Wichita to eat. Uh, or a new nightclub would open up there or something. Well, then all of a sudden people had desires to maybe for something special to, to run to Wichita. So it was that evil second income after all that, uh, caused all this. That is my memories. Yes. I I, there's no necessarily right answer, but cash flow has to be part of it. And, and then. Uh, Walmart was built in El Dorado. Oh, so it's the evil Sam Walton? No. Okay. But I just, there were a lot of things that just changed in the eighties. Yeah. Or, or right after, or, or maybe shortly. Yeah. I, remembering my southwest Missouri cousins and aunts and uncles, we went to, um, Evans family reunion. That was my mother's maiden name. And my aunt Jan was so excited because Carthage had a Walmart. This is maybe, we had just gotten back from Colorado Springs, so we'd, we'll say it's 69. And, uh, they, they had a Walmart. I had never heard of Walmart. I mean, we'd been in Colorado. There's nothing like that there. I didn't know what she was talking about. And I remember driving by this big store and it, it was nothing like the Walmarts now sure. It was just a small, um, store in a strip mall. But, uh, and thinking, what is Walmart? So that, that was kind of a memory that, uh, I laugh about now. And for the sake of geography, Carthage would be 60, 70 miles north of Bentonville, Arkansas. Right. And it was one of the first ones where they branched out from Bentonville. It was fun to visit Bentonville in Ben in the museum there and, and see where the stores branched out to. It's just, um, one of the things that, uh, it was an early, observation that I remember, but when Walmart came to El Dorado, a lot of shopping habits changed. Yeah. And a lot of storefronts for our area. Main Street closed. Well, yeah. And, and even one of the merchants, we went in to buy something and we made the comment, well, it's lots cheaper over in Eldorado at Walmart thinking, because you could get, you could negotiate. Yeah. You could negotiate prices from the old stores. And he said, I can't even get one of those that cheaply. Yeah. So there was a problem that the Main Street merchants were running into. So you mentioned at the start of this conversation that both of your parents who grew up in northwest Missouri and Southwest Missouri mm-hmm. Went to Kansas City for jobs and they didn't return to the farm. That's right. And so that would've been in the forties. Mm-hmm. Probably made that decision in the thirties. They got married in 41 in June of 40. But it was evident even before that, that that was their course. You know, a lot of times as we talk about this, um, migration from urban to rural or from rural to urban centers, we act like it's just happened in the last 30 years, or the last 50 years. It's been happening for 200 years. Yeah. Yes. And it's probably not changing anytime soon. Now, we have seen some outward, some reverse migration, thanks to technology and communication and people not wanting to live in, in suburban America. But what has that done to communities like Eureka and nearly every community of everybody who's listening to this podcast and probably more importantly, how do we, not try to stop that because we can't. But how do we make that negative a positive? And what's it take for somebody who grew up on concrete like yourself, has seen as you go back to your brother and sister-in-laws and everything else, you, you're, you're five minutes away from everything you need in terms of a coffee shop, a target, a shopping restaurant, mall, a nice restaurant, or 12. We don't have that. And it's not that easy. We've got other things, and I'm reminded by my city cousins, all the beautiful things and wonderful things that we do have, but for the sake of the next generation, who is possibly going to be returning to rural America or making those decisions, what do we need to offer those kids to make a rural community still look like an option to them? well, and I think, Economics of the situation is, is probably a big thing because they know if they will not have the salaries, if they come back home, quote unquote, that they probably have been used to, but the housing isn't as expensive. Yeah. Cost of living's cheaper. Cost of living's, A lot cheaper. Let's say the beef industry, which drives most of these rural communities. For folks that are listening here, let's say the beef industry stays profitable for the foreseeable future, we know that necessarily isn't going to be the case. You laugh and smile because you, I'm smiling. You're you're waiting, you're waiting for it to crash everybody. No, I, I don't want it to crash. But we've been there, done that. Exactly. Um, but let's say there is, thanks to the evil c word of consolidation, but let's face it. Everybody who's still running cows today and making it a viable business source is part of consolidation. We all are running pastures with somebody else's name on them because they used to be owned by that family 10 or 20 or 50 or a hundred years ago. So thanks to consolidation, thanks to technology, thanks to higher demand for beef, better prices throughout. Let's say we do have prolonged profitability in beef communities for the next five to seven years, and those salaries may be close to competitive with what they could make somewhere else. Some folks are still gonna say, I'm not interested for other reasons. What are those reasons? What? What did you give up when you decided to make the move from Golden Colorado? Colorado Springs? Mm-hmm. With the buffer there. Two, Eureka, Kansas. And what do quote unquote kids these days have to give up to come to rural America? And then we'll get to what do they get? I th I think one of the big things is the people in the beef industry work hard. They work long hours, they work hard, and they don't have a lot of time off. Yeah. And I don't know how that's gonna really change. I think it just someone who enjoys the real life, enjoys fishing, hunting, um, the amenities that we do have friendly people, people there ready to help you out if, if you get in a bind or have problems. Um. That's just the atmosphere of a slower pace, I guess It's a slower pace. Every time I talk to you, you tell me how crazy it is from one thing to another around here, but uh, I know it's a slower pace than I see happening in, in the city. Yeah. Well, it, it's a different pace. It's, it may be, it may be fast in terms of physical effort, but we don't have to put up with road construction and Right. Or stoplights. We only have one, one stoplight in our whole county and stoplights just, and I'm told Brian Marshall's trying to get the city to take that one out. Yeah. That right. Then we'd have known, but no other town has a stoplight, but Eureka, we're the only stoplight in the entire county. Mm-hmm. Yeah. And so you got to, you think you can get somewhere fast when you're in a. A metropolitan area or a, you know, yeah. City and there's stoplights every block sometimes. Okay, so here, here, I think this is a perfect analogy and a perfect metaphor. We look at being a one stoplight town as kind of being less than, a little embarrassing maybe as we tell people from the city that you tell somebody that and they just can't believe it. Well, guess what? Quite often today, anyway, city people go, boy, it must be nice. That's right. And we don't realize that and, and I think that's why I continue to stress the importance of rural Americans, farmers, ranchers, people that maybe aren't in agriculture. To get out and talk to people who live in the burbs and who live in the inner city and see. Our way of life and our, what we think is kind of a less than type of mentality, they look at as greater than, that's right. And, and I'm getting ready to go. In fact, when this podcast drops, I'm gonna be there seeing my cousin Kyle and and his wife Melinda. They live in Florida. They sent me a sunset picture out their back porch, and they're right off the Atlantic Ocean, and I mean the prettiest sunset in the world. And I sent them one of me heat checking cows in whatever degree temps it was. And. To me it was pretty ugly. And Melinda said, that's gorgeous, Matt. I'm like, there's no palm trees. There's no waves crashing or canals coming up or any of the things that I think are beautiful about yours. And she said, yeah, but there is a certain amount of serenity... whenever we see something, whenever we're out there in the Flint Hills, you cannot get anywhere else. And I'm like, you call serenity. I call it boring. It's pretty, pretty peaceful. It's peaceful. And I think we forget that because it's worked to us. It is an office to us. And I, and maybe other ranchers are better at it. I know they are, but I am terrible at recognizing the advantages of living in rural America. I, I just, I forget to remind myself, and therefore I forget to drive that home with my kids or others who are considering life in rural America for a long term. Proposition, and that's what we have to market. We have something that people actually want that will never have the opportunity to experience. I'm gonna miss the symphony in the Flint Hills because I think that opened a lot of our local people's eyes as to how beautiful this area is and how proud we should be to be a part of it. And, uh, it did. Uh, there just a lot of the Kansas City people that came that just couldn't believe how gorgeous this area was. And, uh, I, I think it, it did a lot of things to help booster our, our particular area. Yeah, I'm one of those people that had opened their eyes and, um, I did a podcast with Kelly Tastove, um. I'll have to look it up and put it in the notes, but you can go back and listen to that and, and we can flesh it out further. But if you don't have time to, this symphony would bring six, 7,000 people, mainly non rancher types to the middle of a pasture in the Flint Hills every June. And they brought in the full symphony from Kansas City uh, and they did a, about an hour and a half long, um, presenta or or concert on a temporary stage with a big clamshell behind them. Unbelievable experience. And I saw things in the Flint hills, grasses, wild flowers, um, cattle that were dri being driven behind there, that were just an everyday occurrence to me. I saw them through five or 6,000 people's eyes from Johnson County, Kansas, and Germany, and across the world. And I was like, what is the big deal? And yet when they described it and what it did for them and to see tears in their eyes over stuff that I was like, this is kind of hokey. This is really not anything that I don't see every day. We see it every day and take it for granted. Exactly. And don't even realize the effect it has on people who don't see nature. Yeah. All the time. Don't see sunsets and sunrises every day. And, um, I, I really appreciated what that did. I hope some way we can keep that going.'cause that is a big thing. One thing I did forget to mention, I am a product of inner Kansas City, not, not in the slum area, but Kansas City in the mid sixties. Yeah. And a lot of things were changing in my neighborhood and that was one of my big things when we came here, it was peaceful. You didn't have to worry about if there was gonna be a problem, violence, riots, in Eureka. I mean, it was like, it was a safe haven type thing. And that was another big thing to me was just to feel safe about a place to live and raise your family. And, um, I think we still have that idea. You're exactly right. I mean, you made the move, you, I've, I've been to where you grew up in Kansas City, Missouri. Mm-hmm. And there's bars on the houses. Mm-hmm. And you moved to Johnson County, Kansas Prairie Village area, which was much safer, a safer suburb in the early sixties, and then a continued outward migration to Eureka, Kansas. What would stick in your mind when you moved here full time and realized that. You were here. What was your biggest eye-opening? Oh my goodness. What have I gotten myself into moment, whether it was on the ranch, whether it was in town. We've already talked about the wet manure on the getaway car outside of the church, but for real, what hit you the hardest? And you said, what in the world have I gotten myself into? I don't know. There were just so many things, uh, in the beginning, but I think just getting through things. If there were problems that occurred, you felt like you were more in control of your, uh, existence, maybe? Hmm. I, I grew up not even knowing what my father did. I drive by the building and see he worked for Folgers Coffee for Almo, I don't know, 30 some years, his entire career? Pretty much. So, uh, it got bought out and he did change. He retired a little earlier, I think, than he'd meant to, but then he got another job. But we didn't know, we kissed, didn't know what he did. And company policy, you were not to bring your children mm-hmm. Into the office it just wasn't done. Well. There was one time my brother's Cub Scout or Boy Scout troop got to visit some of the, manufacturing places in Kansas City and. Th they got to go. So I went too,'cause I'd never seen my dad's office. Wow. And I think that is a big part of, of our operation and rural life. Yeah. Kids know what their parents do. Yeah. They're, they're included in a lot ofdecision, whether they want to be or not. Decision. And then a lot of the work too. And you never had to worry about a child getting really, truly bored in the summer.'cause there was plenty of things to get that kid doing. And as a child, if, and if you were, you did not admit it because they were gonna find something, you, they would find something else for you to do. Yes. So I, that was, it made, I thought it made child rearing easier. Parenting easier because there was so much for you to do. And we didn't ever get it all done. Did we still haven't, still haven't, still haven't. All these years later now, what's the biggest advantage? Of living in Eureka, Kansas, in rural America on a farm or ranch of any kind. What if you were telling somebody, you know what, I'd do it all over again? Or I guess maybe I should have asked first. Would you? Right, right. Do it all over again. And why? Um, it's satisfying. We've, um, accomplished a lot. When I think about what the place looked like when I first came and I look out and see everything now, I, I'm very proud of what has been accomplished. And I think that is, is one of my greatest, joys, is just seeing where it's gone. Yeah. And you should be, I remember you talking about,'cause I was young enough that I missed some of those early years, but. Almost having this guilt or this, uh, embarrassment of success or anybody knowing that a farm or ranch was successful and you and dad said, Hey, we want to have a logo for Dalebanks Angus. And that was my idea. Okay. That was my first thing to step up and say, you guys need a logo? You need to have, think when those pickups go deliver cattle or whatever. Which we didn't deliver cattle then. Well, yeah, well, but we went and bought bulls. There you go. In a pickup with wood. So, or you know, I dunno what you call it. By the way, Henry wants to go back to a truck with slat sides. Sled sides. He wants stock racks. Stock racks. That's what I was trying to say. So just get ready. It's full circle moment. He, he can't wait. Well, I can just remember once upon a time before we were married. I think it was before we, or maybe I was just at my dad's, they went to pick up a bull in someplace north, I can't remember where that was. Probably North Dakota. And came and stopped back by my home in Prairie Village with this pickup and the slap side stock racks and this bull in the back. And there it was parked in the, in the driveway. And that was kind of a different sort of memory. Well, I still do the same. Instead of going to pick the cattle up, we have to deliver them. This is, this is what has happened in the seed stock world. And I stopped by Johnson County, Kansas and parked my pickup and trailer. We can't get it outside of Lee. And Steve's Amy's sister and brother-in-law's. House because, um, it'll clog up the street too much. So we park at the school. Oh, the school, four or five blocks away, and then I just walk across. Yeah, I think that, so we still, it, it's still happening. I think that's where p But we have logos. We have logos on it. Right. And it does have logos on it. So you, you wanted a logo and decals on the pickup. Why? Because I'd noticed we had neighbors, the Corbins. Mm-hmm. And they had this nice logo on their pickup, and wherever they went, people knew it. People knew who they were and where they'd come from. And I just thought it was a good marketing thing. Oh yeah. That's great. So we, I just asked him where they got, who designed it, and it was a man in Wichita, so I called him. And um, that was our first logo, the one with the kind of barn wood behind, and that we used from for a long time. 70 until. 2000 and, yeah. 15 or 20. Yeah. So you did the open D one, had a good run. And, we got all kinds of decals. I think we still have some, but um,'cause we didn't buy that many pickups. If you, I do remember. I do remember. But, Tom's father didn't think that he thought we needed just to get a metal sign and then you could take it off if you didn't want that logo on there when you went someplace. And I argued, no, we need a decal. We need to spread the word that we're here. How did arguing with Francis Perrier go? He generally, if you had a good reason for your side, he, he would back down. And particularly he was in retirement, by what. Not too long after you were born? Yeah. I don't ever remember a time that he wasn't, at least partially, every time partially retired. So you put him on while he was in Mexico? Oh no. It was, it was, that's how you got away with it. She did it while I was gone for three months that he had a, he and his wife had a second home in, Mexico, that they went in the winter. And, um, yeah, that's probably what we did. I think that's probably what you did. But he, he really did. And for the record at that time, he tried not to get, uh, too involved with anything that, but he did make the comment that he thought we just, the metal signs at work and of course they were cheaper too. So I was gonna say that was, that was it. But I always was kind of proud of that logo and because I did think we needed, I said, you can be advertising while you're driving down the road or wherever you go. Mm-hmm. And uh, that was a new concept for Dalebanks, there would've been lots of new concepts that you and dad and Chuck mm-hmm. And so many others brought in. And, and I think that's a, we laugh a little bit about arguing with a Perrier because there's no good way to do it. And plenty of you that are listening to this probably know, but I think that we have tried, you and dad have been really generous in allowing the next generation and some of our crazy ideas to at least use some of them. And I think sometimes in rural America, that's, that's maybe where we fall short. We are so proud of that legacy or that tradition that, US gray hairs that are 50 or 60 or 70 or 80 and some 20 or 30-year-old punk kid comes in here with some hair-brained idea. Like, we should put logos on the sides of these vehicles. And our first answer is no, and we don't back down. And, and I think that's, that's where it's beneficial to have somebody like yourself, dad for a time when he was either in service or at college, getting that experience from outside. I, I, I, mm-hmm. I recognize it. And this is kind of a family policy and anybody that's listening to these podcasts, I already know this, but this kind of a family policy here and so many other places. Donnie Schiefelbein talked about it when we talked about estate planning, but requiring that anybody from the next generation of family that is interested in coming back to work and eventually ownership of this place needs to go and live and work someplace else for at least a few years after college. And you all started that. You tell me, why did you make that a. Rule a suggestion. What's the value? Um, well I think, and again, it all reverts back to our way of life being just a little different than it we're not normal as a, we're not normal. And, and, um, just make sure that that individual, really wants to come back to rural America and come back home. And that they just didn't fall in. I mean, it wasn't required. Mm-hmm. So they make their decision on what they want to do. And I think that's the risk that every family in every situation is gonna be different, but that's the risk that you run with pushing a kid somewhere else for a few years, is that they may like it better. Mm-hmm. They may have thought, yeah, I can do this. I can come back and live in rural America and run cows. Just be a rancher. Just be a farmer. I hear that all the time. I'm just gonna farm and then that's the thing. I'm just gonna be a ranch wife just to be a rancher. I mean, it's a high tech business. Yeah. I mean, it's not, but we live in this world that we still, and we are more guilty of it than our urban and suburban. Population. It's us that says, I'm just gonna farm. I'm just gonna run cows. Like it's eh, I couldn't do anything else. I mean, you talk to any HR person, military service, any place, and they will tell you, you send me as many farm ranch kids as you can. Right? Right.'cause they know how to work. They know how to solve problems. They're not afraid to work. They're not afraid. They can talk to you. They can, they show up. So this mindset of I'm just gonna live in rural America. I'm just gonna grow food for the world...somehow, we've got to get past this, but we've gotta get past. So I guess going back to my question, what are the risks, but what are the rewards of that suggestion, whether it be 18 months or 18 years? Of pushing the next generation out first, letting them experience, letting them see what the other, how the other half other half lives, and then make the decision to come back. And it is risky'cause you just don't know what that decision might be. Yeah. But, I think just a, a few years anyway, for them to, to see what they want to do Yeah. Is a good idea. Although it's hard'cause those kids are, I mean, they know what's happening. They could be a lot of help Yeah. On your ranch. Yeah. Yeah. It's, I mean, we make so many decisions in business of short versus long term gain. Mm-hmm. And the short term gain of getting that young, strong, backed. Daughter. Son, enthusiastic kid. Enthusiastic kid back as soon as humanly possible is that we can get a lot of stuff done kid today, not three years from now. Mm-hmm. But then if we see burnout hit five years from then, or five weeks, I think that, and I mean, I'm living proof. I was gone for eight years after college, so 12 years with college. And there were still times that I got back here and went, what have I done? Why I'm sure you did, why in the world what I have not stayed doing what I was enjoying doing elsewhere? But if I'd have had those feelings and come straight home or straight outta high school i'd, I'd have probably hit the eject button. Mm-hmm. But as it was, I'd seen the other half and I went, you know what? Now thinking back, I remember how much I hated that traffic, or I remember how much I hated it when we'd put a program together and then people would raise Cain in the association world or whatever else, and that really hacked me off. And so why not just come back and do it myself? Yeah. But you've gotta have those times, I think, before you come back to the farm or ranch mm-hmm. To appreciate it. Just, just kind of see what it's really like and um, make that decision. Yeah. And not just feel like you had to end up on the ranch. Yeah. There's always gonna be an, a certain amount of duty mm-hmm. In a, in a family business. I don't care if it's farming or baking pizzas and restaurants or whatever, whatever the case may be, there's always this sense of responsibility and duty that somebody's gotta carry on the family business. But I think that it's worthwhile proving to yourself that you could. Do something else and learning that there are other ways to do it that maybe dad and grandpa or grandma didn't do before. And I think there's value there too. Yeah. And it's, um, just really have the pride that, you know, things have just gone really well. Yep. And even with new ideas, just, sit back and watch. That's what dad and I are enjoying right now. Good. Well, I think after as many decades as you all put in I'd say that, that, uh, it's well deserved. Thank you. So if there is somebody that's listening to this young kid trying to make decisions, parent of a next generation... What advice would you tell them as they weigh that opportunity of returning to rural America, specifically to a farm or ranch? And what do they need to be thinking about? I mean, I know we've hit some of your experience, but what's something that you would tell them as they make that life decision from somebody who didn't think that they would be on a farmer ranch Exactly. And had ample time to make that decision, you know, 10 weeks or whatever you had, what would you tell'em to consider, Never learned to drive a tractor." My aunt fell, gave me that advice at our wedding reception. That's probably wise advice. Did you stick to it? Oh yeah. I don't ever remember seeing you in a cab. I don't how to drive a tractor. She, every time I'd see her, she'd say, you haven't learned to drive a tractor yet, have you? I'd go, that's funny. That's funny. But a lot of my friends, you know, Becky Lindenwood was out there driving tractors, but she already knew how to drive a tractor when they got married. Jamie didn't. Jamie, didn't she? But she probably does now. Definitely a feed pickup. I, I think a feed pickup, but I think, yeah, I don't know. No, I think Diltz would probably want to do either the tractors, but I'm not sure we can ask them. We'll have to ask them. We'll put this in there and they'll tell us. But in all seriousness, whether it be the farmer rancher trying to decide to move back or that farmer, rancher's spouse, what would you tell'em? Um, consider the positives. You have to be, you have to be someone that is strong in their faith, I think, because I think we. Uh, are lots closer to God when we're in a drought and, and when we maybe have some weather issues. I don't think that you can do this without a lot of faith. Yep. And, um, that maybe is not as popular right now. Well, it's popular with this audience, but it, it's, uh, one of those things that I really didn't dwell on, but it, it's has been something that is encouraging as you go along. And, and Rome wasn't built in a day. Mm-hmm. You, you can't just suddenly come back and everything be rosy. It's just, it takes a lot of time and years and hard work. Yep. Faith. Patience, patience, perseverance. That, that's it. That's the, the way, it's just kind of the, I guess, mantra of this business maybe. Yep. And it's always has been. That's one thing, right? That I'm not sure technology will ever fully change. It still takes 283 days to get a calf on the ground. It still takes exactly however many months or years to get them to where they actually are marketable. Um, mm-hmm. It still takes a season to get a crop outta the ground and into the bin. And, and those are things that, again, we just have to recognize that biology rules the day and we, and you're closer to biology in some places or in this right particular, way of life. Yep. No doubt. Well, I think that's a good place to quit. Thanks for doing this. Thank you. You, uh, get to add to the, familial ties here on practically ranching, and I guess we can, I can be accused of nepotism all they want, but, uh, when I've got this many good folks that have got this much good stuff to share, I'm gonna throw in a family member every once in a while. So, thanks mom. Thank you. It's been fun. Thank you. You bet.