Practically Ranching
Join Matt Perrier as he visits weekly with interesting, thoughtful, entertaining individuals within the beef community. Conversations will inspire curiosity and creativity while maintaining the independent spirit and practical nature for which ranchers are known.
Practically Ranching
#84 - Tom Carr, Giving Back
Use Left/Right to seek, Home/End to jump to start or end. Hold shift to jump forward or backward.
Dr. Tom Carr is Professor Emeritus of the University of Illinois. After Serving on the faculty for 36 years as a Meat Scientist and Professor, he and his wife now make their home in his hometown of Medicine Lodge, KS.
Other podcast episodes referenced:
#22 - Diana Clark
Hi there, and thanks for joining me for episode 84 of Practically Ranching. I'm Matt Perrier, and we're here thanks to Dalebanks Angus, your home for practical profitable genetics since 1904. If you're in the market for bulls this spring, we'll sell a nice group of about 80 yearling and coming two year olds at private treaty starting in mid-March. For info and prices on the bulls, email me at Matt mattperrier@dalebanks.com and we'll get you the list as soon as we can in early March. This week, I got to visit with Dr. Tom Carr. Dr. Carr is a professor emeritus of meat science from the University of Illinois. And while Dr. Carr spent 36 years on the faculty there at U of I, he's a native Kansan, and he came back to his hometown of Medicine Lodge upon his retirement in 2010. You know, he spent a, a lifetime helping producers produce better beef and pork. He instructed countless students in meat science and he coached meats judging and evaluation teams. He's led research, he's taught, he's coached, and most of all, he's given back to those who need it. You know, through all these episodes, I get to talk with some pretty smart folks. Pretty visionary folks. Hardworking folks. Kind folks. Dr. Carr is all of those rolled into one? You know, I mentioned in the podcast that I've had multiple listeners suggest Tom as a guest, and after hearing him recount his career and all the lives that he's touched, it became pretty evident why I think that everyone who knows Dr. Carr loves Dr. Carr. We talk about several obvious meat science topics. We share a few stories about judging teams, but this is one of those episodes that reminds me that even though learning and and doing are really important, it's the people in our lives that really make the difference. Guys like Tom Carr not only share knowledge, they share their heart with everybody around them. Most of us have people who were instrumental in our achievements. Mm-hmm. And Dr. Carr recognized that pretty early in life and he continues to try and pay that back with his service to his community and to the meat industry. He learned by folks' example, and now he's that example for the rest of us. He reminded me of the importance of, of service to those around us, and I hope you'll feel the same as you hear this conversation with Dr. Tom Carr.
squadcaster-dgfg_1_02-05-2026_095819We had a little bit of snow 10 days ago and about four, maybe five inches. but that's all we have had, uh, December, January's extremely dry and, uh, we had no moisture really in December. So that's a little disconcerting to us,
matt_1_02-05-2026_095820Yeah. As you know, uh, as a Barber County resident and let's see, a Barber County native. Right. If
squadcaster-dgfg_1_02-05-2026_095819right?
matt_1_02-05-2026_095820back
squadcaster-dgfg_1_02-05-2026_095819Yep. Yes, yes.
matt_1_02-05-2026_095820not the first time in history that Medicine Lodge has been dry. Right.
squadcaster-dgfg_1_02-05-2026_095819No, it's usually, uh, pretty normal. I'm afraid to say.
matt_1_02-05-2026_095820So that's a, that's a pretty good lead in for kind of the full circle that you have completed. We'll touch, uh, we'll talk a little bit more here about your time there at Animal Sciences and Industry at U of I, uh, later on. But you're back in rural America, rural Kansas. What brought you there as a retired professor? Emus of, Florida or Arizona or someplace. A little, uh, more temperate.
squadcaster-dgfg_1_02-05-2026_095819That, that's an excellent question and a, as you well know, being, being a native and, and, and, uh, being of the land, my brother and I still co-own our small family ranch between Medicine Lodge and Cold Water. And we've only got about a thousand acres, but, uh, uh, the land is always a draw. And, uh,, when my wife and I, made the decision, uh, to move back, it was to get back to the ranch. uh, dad died in 1987 and I had a, a second cousin that rented our ranch and then rented my, uh, my aunt's ranch across, the road. And, uh, and started about 1988. And so that same family, even though the original, gentleman rancher that, that, uh, rented the land passed away, his daughter and son-in-law continued to ranch. So we've had the same family renting the ranch, uh, since 1988, which is kind of unbelievable when you think about it. And, and, uh, we were having, Red cedar problems and, being in Illinois, my brother living in, uh, Olathe, we weren't here that much. We'd get back for maybe Christmas or Thanksgiving and really didn't see the Cedar creep that was coming into the ranch. And, uh, had some real, very close neighbors that, uh, told us about a,, a project, an organization that could provide funding for removal of Cedars. And, uh, so we signed up to do that in about 2005. But the long story of it is, you know,, wanting to get back to the ranch. And it just, you know, it just drags you, it drags you back. And, my wife was willing to do that. So, uh, we made the decision to do that. And I retired in August of 2010. My family owned a house here on, on Main Street, when dad came back from World War II in 45, uh, my grandparents moved from the ranch in and bought this house on Main Street, uh, in 46. And so we've had that house in our family since, since 1946., Mom and dad and my brother and I lived out on the ranch while my grandparents lived in town, and, and my brother and I maintained that, that old house. And when I came back, my brother said, buy my part out. He said, demolish that house and build a new one. And so, uh, when we moved back to Medicine Launch, we were known as a couple that built a new house on Main Street.
matt_1_02-05-2026_095820Well, that's, that's not, um, probably too surprising, uh, in, in small towns when somebody comes in and does something significant, uh, everybody notices. I'm still chuckling over the fact that it was the Eastern red cedar that brought you back to Medicine Lodge. That's, that's, that's my story and I'm sticking to it. You wanted to, to get on top of, uh, uh, cedar removal and so you just, that was, that was your retirement gig.
squadcaster-dgfg_1_02-05-2026_095819Yeah, well my, my poor wife, uh, we, we came, when we moved back, our dear neighbor to the south of us said, Hey, how about putting, uh, a 3.2 mile new fence and share it 50 50 on the south side of the ranch? And I said, I'm all for that. But the problem was we have massive cedars growing in the fences all the way around our, our perimeter of 6.2 miles. So, my wife, I told my wife, I said, well, we're gonna start cutting cedars out of the fences. And we started in March of 2011. And my Lord, it took us a year, year and a half. You know,
matt_1_02-05-2026_095820You
squadcaster-dgfg_1_02-05-2026_095819to get that job done before we could really start to build a new, perimeter fence on our south side. You know, that was quite an undertaking. She didn't bargain for that. But bless her heart, she helped me the whole time. And, uh, so, uh, we got that job done. But, uh, I tell you, there's nothing, Cedars just puts the fear of God in me. We drive by, we both look at each other and think we need to grab a chainsaw and run out there and get 'em.
matt_1_02-05-2026_095820Yep.
squadcaster-dgfg_1_02-05-2026_095819yeah.
matt_1_02-05-2026_095820uh, not probably every retiree has, uh, saved everything they could for four or five decades just so they could come home and cut cedars for the rest of their, uh, retirement. But that's great. I think that says a lot about, about you and your work ethic and your tie to the land, and, um, probably would any student or um, uh, team member or anybody else that worked with you there at U of I probably could say that they saw the same work ethic back then too. tell us a little bit about that, uh, professional career you know, and, and even your schooling back to undergrad and master's and, and, um,
squadcaster-dgfg_1_02-05-2026_095819Yeah.
matt_1_02-05-2026_095820PhD work and, and what took you to university of Illinois.
squadcaster-dgfg_1_02-05-2026_095819Right. Well, as, as you well know, four H had a unbelievable impact in my life. And, uh, when we had the. Uh, he started in four H at, I think age eight, something like that. And, uh, had several young men, uh, that, uh, went to K State right after they got outta the service, whether it was Korea, world War ii, whatever it might be, and, and came back to the ranches. And two or three of those guys, uh, really jumped in and volunteered in, in, in teaching and coaching, livestock judging. And at that point in time, we had a tremendously good extension agent who was all about educating the kids. And so us kids in the, in the, the fifties, early sixties, had the opportunity to, to be on county, livestock judging teams, range judging teams, land judging teams that basically were in national contests and, and it was a, an emphasis by our extension programming in our county. And, uh, that had a tremendous impact on me. And so in livestock judging of course, we got acclimated to Don Good and Miles McKee at all the lifestyle judging contests, regional district, whatever it might be, state contest. And so, you know, Kansas State was, uh, the place to go. And I was the first of our family ever to go to college. And mom and dad, you know, that that was their thing, is to make sure both of us, uh, got to college. And so we did that. And, uh, when I went to K State, As an undergrad, uh, one of my goals was, to, uh, be on the livestock judging team. We did not have meats judging in four H in Barber County at that point in time, although obviously meets judging in four H was in Kansas, but we didn't have it in Barber County. So I never got indoctrinated or introduced to me judging or, or meets until I took, you know, the introductory meat science class. And just so happened, a new, professor had joined K State about that time named Dr. Dell Allen. And uh, so I kind of got in through enthused with, uh,
matt_1_02-05-2026_095820smallest
squadcaster-dgfg_1_02-05-2026_095819the meat side of things and, uh. Dell asked me if I would come out for the judge team. Well, I did that as a junior rather than as a sophomore. And some of the guys, I had to be in FarmHouse fraternity, and some of the guys were on the meets team and said, you need to do this. And so, uh, I, I did and, really got into it. I, uh, kind of an interesting story. I, that made me, a little behind as far as my wanting to be on the livestock judging team. And so I should have graduated in, in, in the spring of 68. And, uh, I came home and told dad, I said, dad, I, I said, I, I wanna be on the livestock judging team, and I'll have to go an extra semester. And he said, well, that's okay. He says, you just trot yourself right down to the bank and borrow the money. And so I, I did that and uh, you know, at that point in time, those loans for student loans, unbelievably low interest rate, I don't know whether it was 2%, something like that. And so I come out and, and, uh, he said, well, how did it go? And I said, really good. I said, I, I borrowed $500 for such and such and told him interest. He says, my God. He says, why didn't you borrow more money? I was terrified. Anyways, the beginning, you know. So anyway, I did that and was on the livestock judging team then, uh, in, in 68. And we had great success on that team and uh, uh, it was a great experience. And then Dell came back and said, Hey. Would you think you'd be interested in possibly getting a master's degree? And, uh, I said, yes, I would do that. Dad and I had had a very frank discussion. My whole plan was to go back to the ranch, but he and granddad were in a partnership. And at that point in time, they were through land. We owned and, and, and rented, was running about, uh, 3,700 acres and had a cow herd of basically about 150 cows and farmed about 500 acres. The rest being pasture. But he says, you know, there's, there's not enough room for both of us. And he said, you need to find something to do for a while. So I had that discussion before Dell had asked me about possibly going on to grad school, and I said, yes, I'll do that. And helped with coaching the, the hi his judging teams at that point in time and had uh, uh, really good experience in grad school there. Uh, had the opportunity to go to Oklahoma State University, uh, serve as a halftime instructorship while going on to get my PhD under Lowell Walters, uh, at Oklahoma State. And, finished that up and had a great experience coach four meets judging teams at oh state. And then had the opportunity to go to the University of Illinois assistant professor in a teaching and extension position. And, responsibility of coaching a lot the me judging team and co-coaching and meat animal evaluation team. And did that for 36 years. So that's, that's kind of the, the nuts and bolts of it.,
matt_1_02-05-2026_095820I'd say that's a lot and, pretty impressive path and, and one that's not atypical of a lot of judging team coaches of, of emulating some coach that had a big influence on them. And I, I love that story of those gentlemen who came back after serving their country in Korea or World War II even before that. Um, and then continued to serve by coaching you all as as youth, 4- H teams. And that too, you have emulated, have you not? Because I remember my kids who were judging for Greenwood County's meats team came back from a state contest probably, yeah, it's been six or eight, maybe 10 years ago. And Barber County had, had beaten them or, or given 'em a run or something. And I said, well, who's, who's coaching Barber County's four H team? Because Lyle and Vid had, they, their team had had quite a bit of success and Hannah's as well. And, and they said some guy that's a retired meats judging, collegiate meets judging coach from Illinois or someplace. And I'm like, Dr. Tom Carr is back in the business. That's a, that's a fun full circle moment too. Are you still helping coach those 4- H teams?
squadcaster-dgfg_1_02-05-2026_095819Yes, I am. I am. Uh, and, and we got, I guess it'd been about 2011. Uh, Tim Marshall was our extension agent at that point in time, and he came to me and said, Hey, would you be interested in helping start, uh, four H me judging team? And, and of course I said, yes, I, I would certainly be willing to help and assist with that. So we've been at it for a while. you know, it's, it's interesting that those, those first kids that I had now, uh, you know,, majority of them are, are married or getting married. A couple of 'em have kids and, it's, it's so neat to see them now, contributing to, uh, the livestock and meats industry and succeeding and all that good stuff. But, uh, yes, it's, it's been, it's been fun and it's, it's challenging, Matt. There's so many things that, uh, uh, you know, tear at the kids' interest and, I tell you the biggest problem we have and in, I don't know if Carla has the same problems in Greenwood County or not, but, uh, sports just eats us up. And, uh, uh, it, it's, it's tough to balance, all the time requirements and everything that the kids are involved in and, and find time. And as you well know, in 4- H mes judging and retail identification, it's a lot of work. It's a lot of memorization and there's a lot of kids that just will not spend that much time trying to develop some level of excellence.
matt_1_02-05-2026_095820Yeah, after, after having four kids, thus far go through that program. Yeah. It is a huge time commitment and a huge, uh, just commitment in general. And your comment about, sports schedules getting in the way is 100% valid in Greenwood County as well. And, and that's something that, our family and that our kids coaches, Carla and Jeanna have struggled with. And, and, um, if you ask our kids sports. Team coaches, they think that, uh, meats and livestock judging is a real drag on, on the kids' schedule too, because it doesn't allow them to be on every summer team. And, you know, all of these, uh, it takes 'em away during the season sometimes for contests and workout trips. And so, yeah, I think as we look, and this is probably an entire podcast in and of itself, but as we look at kids club ball teams, and I would even throw in. and whatever the case may be, it's a different world that we live in today as parents and the level of commitment that is expected and, and, and the specialization that is expected by a lot of coaches and a lot of sports, uh, in general. And it doesn't allow kids to have what I consider a fairly well-rounded, um, very broad spectrum upbringing so that they can judge on the meats team and they can also do, um, three sports and they can also have a part-time job and they can also, you know, go on the 4- H Washington focus trip to DC in the summer for 10 days or
squadcaster-dgfg_1_02-05-2026_095819Yeah.
matt_1_02-05-2026_095820be.
squadcaster-dgfg_1_02-05-2026_095819Yeah.
matt_1_02-05-2026_095820All those get pushed to the back burner. And I think it's unfortunate. Uh, yes, our kids may be better in a sport or two because of it, but I don't know for sure that we're getting better at life
squadcaster-dgfg_1_02-05-2026_095819Amen. Yeah,
matt_1_02-05-2026_095820not
squadcaster-dgfg_1_02-05-2026_095819I,
matt_1_02-05-2026_095820too
squadcaster-dgfg_1_02-05-2026_095819yep, I agree with you a hundred percent. And it, it, it is really challenging. I, you know, to,
matt_1_02-05-2026_095820You know?
squadcaster-dgfg_1_02-05-2026_095819uh, because there, it is a sa whichever way you go, it's a sacrifice. And, and, uh, but, uh, it's really difficult for a kid to be able to do both. And we had a young man, uh, and, and you may know him, uh.
matt_1_02-05-2026_095820You know.
squadcaster-dgfg_1_02-05-2026_095819Callan Smith that, was just on our 4- h uh, meets team, and I think he might've been on the state, uh, team with, with your daughter or maybe your son, I'm not sure which. But anyway,, he was able to, to kind of balance it as far as high school sports is concerned, uh, with being on the, the state team and representing Kansas, you know, at the national contest. But it was a challenge even then.
matt_1_02-05-2026_095820No doubt. And, and some would even say that judging has taken to a, been taken to a new level. I know when I was judging, uh, at, in 4- H, we'd go to one or two contests a year, and maybe it was just because Greenwood County wasn't as competitive then as maybe we are now. But, there wouldn't be many, if any workouts. There sure wouldn't be any, um, week two, week long, there wasn't an all-star state team that I knew of. And so that's been taken to a new level as well. And, and
squadcaster-dgfg_1_02-05-2026_095819Yeah.
matt_1_02-05-2026_095820everybody could probably throw rocks at the other activity that's taking from quote unquote their focus. But, uh, yeah, it is, it, it's a lot. And, and I, I mean, still maintain that it's excellent for the kids, whether that is their focus or that is something that they somehow squeeze in between academics and other sports teams and, and work and life in general. Um, the busiest kids are generally the most successful kids,
squadcaster-dgfg_1_02-05-2026_095819Yep.
matt_1_02-05-2026_095820I,
squadcaster-dgfg_1_02-05-2026_095819Without question.
matt_1_02-05-2026_095820and I see it all the way through adulthood. They learn to prioritize their time and they learn to put priorities on what's most important. And they know that they're gonna have some adversity in the other areas, maybe from challenges and coaches and things like that. But, uh, yeah, I, I think it's a good life lesson for 'em to balance all those.
squadcaster-dgfg_1_02-05-2026_095819Yep. Very definitely.
matt_1_02-05-2026_095820And, you know, along those lines, I even think as I see folks that have achieved success, whether it be in production, agriculture, and on volunteer boards or even, uh, agribusiness or doctors and lawyers and bankers and everything else, these kids that grew up on some type of a competition team meats judging livestock, judging range, land judging, whatever the case may be, it seems like. Either they have the communication skills that get their foot in the door and get that job, or they have the decision making skills to let them excel, but that's a common thread, and I think a lot of people that are listening to this podcast are probably nodding their head in agreement because they participated on one of those teams, if not several. What is it, what's the special sauce that, whether it be collegiate or even 4- H and FFA judging team kids have and learn that develops them into, for lack of a better word, more, service oriented and, and, uh, more effective contributors to society as they go forth.
squadcaster-dgfg_1_02-05-2026_095819That's a really good question. You know, and I, and, and as I look back and, and you've already identified, some of the characteristics of, of those individuals that go through a judging experience, I think one of the, the, the biggest, attributes is for most, I think it teaches self-discipline.
matt_1_02-05-2026_095820Uh.
squadcaster-dgfg_1_02-05-2026_095819know, time management becomes a, a, a huge factor, uh, especially for those kids that are participating in on collegiate teams and everything they've got going on with academics and other clubs responsibilities and things like that. Trying to, organize, their time. That, that's a huge lesson to learn there and, and. that takes, self-discipline. You, you have got to prioritize things which is a huge lesson to learn. And then after you go through that process and, and you look back and it might take a few years, but you look back and, and say, wow, I gained an awful lot out of that experience, then it's payback time. I think that person comes to the point where, you know, uh, I need to give back this, this has made me a, a successful person in, in, in this career or that career. I've gained so much from that. Uh, I need to give back. And I think that's where the service part, comes back, you know? And, uh, mine started, like I said initially, and I get pretty emotional about it. It was 4- H, uh, uh, I would never. Uh, be successful in what I had done if it hadn't been for those initial experiences, you know, and we had parents, uh, volunteers that, that gave of their time and effort, great county agents, people that were willing to sacrifice their time for kids. And, uh, that, that just had a tremendous impact on my life. And I had great, obviously great support from my parents. But it, it was others that also were very impactful as far as 4- H leaders and teachers and coaches and so forth, you know? And so, uh, I, I felt a, a great responsibility in trying to pay that back.
matt_1_02-05-2026_095820Well, I'm told that, and I think I may have even had a podcast guest that would've been the result of this. But when you were at the University of Illinois, did you not kind of serve the industry by maybe casting a little wider net and working with some kids may not have grown up on a farm or ranch in rural Illinois or, or even the rural Midwest, but maybe came out of an urban or suburban area and get them into and interested in the meat science field, the animal science field, and maybe more specifically the meats judging team. and how did that, I guess, play into that, paying it back that you mentioned there before?
squadcaster-dgfg_1_02-05-2026_095819Well,
matt_1_02-05-2026_095820Um.
squadcaster-dgfg_1_02-05-2026_095819very definitely. We had young people that, that enrolled the University of Illinois in Department of Animal Science with like many, their major goal to get to vet school.
matt_1_02-05-2026_095820Okay,
squadcaster-dgfg_1_02-05-2026_095819so we had a significant number of kids coming out of the collar counties of Chicago, and other urban areas that had tremendously good high school preparation in the biological sciences. And so, uh. They would come in and major in animal sciences because that was probably the best way of getting into vet school. And initially my meat science introductory meat science course was required of all animal science majors in the department. And so, through that I was able to attract a fairly significant number of kids that had urban backgrounds, non-ag backgrounds, kind of get them turned on a little bit. And they would come out for the meet team. And because of their intelligence as well as their biological science background, many of those when either if they didn't go on to vet school, they went on to graduate school in meat science or, or ment nutrition or that type of thing, and maintained them within the, the animal science department. So, uh, and, and, uh, Matt, the thing is concerning you, that is, you know, as I was leaving, uh, in, in, in 2010, I was also undergraduate teaching coordinator for the department, for a number of years. And so I had the opportunity, which was fantastic, uh, to interact with many parents and their kids as they were coming to visit the University of Illinois, possibly a place to come for college. And, uh, I enjoyed that very much. But, you know, uh, it got to the point where, at the U of I, it was 80% women,
matt_1_02-05-2026_095820Mm-hmm.
squadcaster-dgfg_1_02-05-2026_095819men in the Department of Animal Sciences. And, uh, it was probably, you know, and the majority of that obviously were from urban areas. So, you know, the great thing about 'EM is many of them were pretty open-minded to other career avenues in animal science once they got in and got their feet wet and say, "wow, there's a lot of stuff here." You know? Uh, and so, you know, uh, subliminally, my, my, my goal was to convince them, you know, not to go on to vet school, but to go to become animal scientists, meat scientists, and go on to graduate school, which many of them did.
matt_1_02-05-2026_095820Well, I'm sure you probably weren't on the Christmas card list from the dean of the vet school, but, uh, I would say that there would be lots of folks highly indebted to you. I, I, the podcast I was mentioning was Diana Clark, possibly one of your
squadcaster-dgfg_1_02-05-2026_095819Uh, very definitely, yes, very definitely.
matt_1_02-05-2026_095820she would've been, we had a podcast with her, gosh, three or four years ago, first season I think of, of this podcast.
squadcaster-dgfg_1_02-05-2026_095819Yeah.
matt_1_02-05-2026_095820she mentioned that, that that was her course exactly as you kind of described, and that you, you, um, kind of changed that course. And, and she's tickled pink that you did, I think
squadcaster-dgfg_1_02-05-2026_095819Yeah, yeah,
matt_1_02-05-2026_095820days anyway,
squadcaster-dgfg_1_02-05-2026_095819yeah. She's, she's a, she's a great gal and, and her husband, of course, he came from Southern Illinois and he wa came from a,, an Angus background. And so, uh, but it was the meats judging team and that, that type of thing that got 'em together. So, uh, you know, that was a plus there.
matt_1_02-05-2026_095820chart, chart career paths, but you're a matchmaker as well. So that,
squadcaster-dgfg_1_02-05-2026_095819Yeah.
matt_1_02-05-2026_095820impressive. So jumping forward, and we can come back, we could talk about judging teams and meat science all day long. Um, today there's a, there's a topic that's fairly front burner, uh, on a lot of people's minds, especially in the meat science community, and that is the yield grade equation, uh, that USDA uses to estimate retail yield and cutability of carcasses. Um, you stayed up on some of the changes that they are talking about and some of the research that, is being done? Texas Tech would be leading that, of
squadcaster-dgfg_1_02-05-2026_095819Yes. Yeah.
matt_1_02-05-2026_095820or is that, is that
squadcaster-dgfg_1_02-05-2026_095819So that something you still
matt_1_02-05-2026_095820on?
squadcaster-dgfg_1_02-05-2026_095819Yes, I, I, I, I do. And, uh, my wife and I still go to our, uh, the national Meetings of American Meat Science Association, which is called the Reciprocal Meat Conference. And, uh, we have continued to attend them. And, and, and part of that reason is to try to try to stay abreast a little bit of what some of the research is going on and doing. And yeah, Dale Woerner and, and the guys at Tech have done a, a great job in trying to, uh, I guess you would say modernize. Uh, our yield grading system, uh, to make it a more accurate predictor of the composition of, uh, of beef carcasses. And, uh, you know, I think research has indicated that, uh, our current methodology, doesn't do as accurate a job as it it should in, in estimating the composition of beef. So I, I'm all for this, new, research efforts that are being made and, and trying to identify, methodology in the cooler that'll work as far as, uh, you know, the actual industry is concerned, online grading and that type of thing, and, and doing a more accurate job of predicting. And so, uh, I think there's, there's still a lot of work to be done in that area, but, uh, they are moving forward and I, I, I think the, the beef industry recognizes that, we need something that is more accurate than what we're currently using. Obviously our cattle have, there's been a lot of, changes in, in the cattle that we, Breed and feed. Over the years since, I guess that would've come out about 1965 as far as our USDA yield grades are concerned somewhere in there. So I think it's, it's, it's a necessary thing that has, has, has finally reached the level where the, the whole industry says, yep, we gotta do something here. so I, I appreciate the, the effort that, that Texas Tech and others are making in that, that arena. And I look forward to our meetings here in June to see, to get an update on, on what you know has happened this past year. Yeah.
matt_1_02-05-2026_095820committee is doing a lot of work, as is Texas Tech and the other participating researchers. And yeah, it's time, it's time. The cattle have changed. Um, uh, the management has changed, genetics have changed, and we've gotta do as good a job with the technologies that we have today to make sure that we're better estimating that, in my opinion, and I know it's not gonna be easy anytime we make a change that affects the way we market and merchandise and value cattle, um, there are some growing pains and obviously there's some logistical changes in the plants and things like that, that we'll have to consider as well. But yeah, we've gotta, probably gotta do a better job than what we're doing with 60-year-old equations and, and cattle that are vastly different than they were in the,
squadcaster-dgfg_1_02-05-2026_095819Yeah,
matt_1_02-05-2026_095820early mid sixties when that work was done.
squadcaster-dgfg_1_02-05-2026_095819very definitely. You know, it worked well for a while, that's for sure, and,
matt_1_02-05-2026_095820sure.
squadcaster-dgfg_1_02-05-2026_095819and made us well aware of, of the problems we had from a compositional standpoint. But, uh, it, it's time to modernize.
matt_1_02-05-2026_095820So that's a change that we've seen cattle types and breeds and cutability and, and muscling and things like that. Um, through your meat science career, what would you say would be the top one, two, maybe three things that you saw change from when you went to K State and maybe got started that, meat science path in the late sixties until you retired 10 or 15 years ago? What, what have you seen that would be the biggest items?
squadcaster-dgfg_1_02-05-2026_095819Well, you know, if, if we're, if we're looking at the beef industry, the beef cattle industry, I, I would say one of the major transformations that we've seen is, the tremendous change in, in the quality. Of our beef, you know, uh, now the percentage of cattle that are, are grading prime is, is, uh, amazing compared to really just 20 years ago, you know, we, we, we evolved and, and all of a sudden we had the continental breeds making tremendous impact
matt_1_02-05-2026_095820running them
squadcaster-dgfg_1_02-05-2026_095819on the composition of our cattle, trimming them up and making heavier muscle and everything. But, we lost marbling if you compared it to a straight bred Angus or shore horn, or it may be in some cases even the herford and, uh, through genetics and, and feeding, we've seen tremendous evolution in, in, in the increase in marbling and, the eating quality of our meat. Uh, I think that's been a huge plus. I think, you know, I, I am, I'm a big, beef eater and, uh,, the improvement in palatability of our beef is, is amazing. We dad always, we had an old Jersey Hereford was our milk cow jersey, Hereford Cross, and,, her offspring was what we consumed after he'd feed it out. And we never, never had a tough piece of meat that jersey influence and marbling in that old herford. Uh, we had a lot of marbling in, in, in our meat. And, so I, I grew up. Not knowing really what, what tough meat was. And, and then when I got away from home and started selecting beef or going to a retail store and, and, and buying beef, Hey, there's some inconsistency here. You know, every once in a while you'd get one that, that, uh, was tougher than shoe leather. So I think we have made great inroads, uh, in improving the palatability of our beef. And I'd say that's been a real plus in our industry that, that I have seen. And,, and I saw it so much in the pork industry, we, we, the though pendulum swings from one side to the other, uh, in, in the seventies and in pigs, we were really concerned with PSE and, and we were moving from real fat hogs to super lean pigs. And all of a sudden, uh, we had palatability problems in, in the pork industry. And so, you and I think we've improved there a bunch also. And, uh, but, but, becoming aware, I guess Matt, on the consumer side, has been an evolution in, in our industry, in the meat industry, in the, in the, the whole, the whole livestock industry. And recognizing that if we are gonna sell a product, uh, it better be consistent and it better be palatable. And to me, the amazing evidence of that is that we're consuming beef at ungodly prices right now, and the consumers are still doing it.
matt_1_02-05-2026_095820Yeah.
squadcaster-dgfg_1_02-05-2026_095819it just, it just blows my mind how this market has hung in there with the price, uh, of beef. My wife and I bought a quarter from one of our 4- Hs. And not too long ago, you know, and by the time I calculated out what that cost and everything, holy cow, you know, what have we done here, dear? But, you know, uh, we went ahead and, and, and did it and are enjoying that beef. But, that's the amazing thing to me. And, and,
matt_1_02-05-2026_095820random.
squadcaster-dgfg_1_02-05-2026_095819you know, uh, so I think our, our, our cattle producers. Everybody in between is recognizing, Hey, the consumer is king and we need to make sure our product is predictable and repeatable and is satisfying. And I think it is not that we're, we're, we're at the apex yet, but, uh, uh, we've been tr made tremendous progress in that area and in, in producing a product. And, and I guess the, the big thing is recognizing a, as an industry that we have got to produce a product
matt_1_02-05-2026_095820These
squadcaster-dgfg_1_02-05-2026_095819that, uh, uh, consumers will come back and, and pay these wild prices for in which they are doing. You know, and a lot of that goes back to, our advertising, you know, uh, supporting research, advertising, all of that, is critically important to that.
matt_1_02-05-2026_095820Yeah, there's, there's no doubt. Um, just in my time in the beef industry, the, as you called it, consumer awareness, our that with that consumer in mind have made a huge difference. And I think marketing and putting money to incentivize us doing those things, not just
squadcaster-dgfg_1_02-05-2026_095819Yeah, yeah,
matt_1_02-05-2026_095820right thing to do, has been, has been critical as well. Obviously.
squadcaster-dgfg_1_02-05-2026_095819yeah. There's no, no question. That
matt_1_02-05-2026_095820What, what is an area maybe that we still need to work on or maybe we need to work on now because of, as an unintended consequence of, of, some gains that we've made in quality and things like that from a meat science
squadcaster-dgfg_1_02-05-2026_095819yeah.
matt_1_02-05-2026_095820Is there something that's looming out there that we have to be aware of and, and address fairly soon?
squadcaster-dgfg_1_02-05-2026_095819You know, that's a good question. I,, I probably have been far enough away from it that I'm, I'm not fully, aware of, the big problems that we're, that may be in, in front of us from, from a meat science standpoint, one of the things that has always, that has blown me away, and we're looking at beef here primarily, but it's also in, in the swine industry, is, uh, these endpoint live weights that we have, the industry has gone to, you know, the cattle are, are, are so heavy now. Uh, merchandising at, you know, 1500 pounds. I go down to, uh, we've got a new little, uh, beef processor, here in Medicine Lodge and, uh, a new plant. And, you know, they're, they're looking for, for, cattle or, or carcass weights. That would be, you know, maybe more in that carcass weight of, 850 pounds. We go to our big process. There's a good grief, there's, you know, rail after rail over a thousand pounds, and that's always been one thing that has concerned me, bothered me a little bit. I fully appreciate, the packers putting their expenses over a greater tonnage of beef. I, I understand that. And, and, and that type of thing. But I, I just, you know, I, I wonder, is there going to be a point where we reduce the number of elephants that we raise? I, you know, I, I, I, that's my concern is how far are we going to go, for, you know, as far as the cow herd size is concerned, and I'm talking about, uh, size of cows and the efficiency involved and, and that type of research, genetics involved and, and, and heavier cattle being able to handle things in a feedlot situation or the stress of heat and cold and all of that kind of a thing. Have it gotten too big, you know, those are things that, that I just wonder on, on the sideline and, and whether we're dealing with that question. Maybe it's not a problem, but,
matt_1_02-05-2026_095820I, I share your concern and I, I believe that it is a problem personally. But in a time you just talked about, we continue to see consumer demand at all time highs. They can't get enough of the product that we have, and we continue to not rebuild the cow herd domestically. And so think the market is just saying, we're gonna do whatever we can to get every ounce of beef that we can to these consumers. And, yeah, it, it opens, in my opinion, it opens a. Pandora's box of unintended consequences, whether we're talking about cow size or uh, animal welfare in the feed yard with these bigger cattle on the same skeleton and, and you know, visceral organs. There's all kinds of challenges that I think that causes, but I will share with you, and I don't think that this is, uh, confidential, but. A processor whom we deliver cattle to occasionally just sent out a letter yesterday announcing that heavyweight discounts, uh, the threshold that used to be a 4% allowance for, uh, 1100 to 1,150 pound cattle is now gonna move up to a 17.5% threshold. Um, they're gonna decrease the discount on those, I mean, 1100 to 1,150 pound carcasses. not that old. I don't feel, and I remember when 1100 to 1,150 pound live weights not uncommon as an average a pen of cattle coming outta the feed yard.
squadcaster-dgfg_1_02-05-2026_095819Yes.
matt_1_02-05-2026_095820and in a mere 30 years, we've moved that to the threshold that we're willing to take, 17.5% meeting that because we're trying to get as many pounds per hook, per carcass, per head outta the feed yard, however you wanna look at it. Um, yeah, there's, there's bound to be some fallout from things like that, but yeah, I think the market is telling us that at least for now, at least for now, it is not going back the other way.
squadcaster-dgfg_1_02-05-2026_095819Yeah. Yep.
matt_1_02-05-2026_095820So it, it will be, yeah, it will be interesting to see kind of how the industry digests that and, and, what happens from here. But yeah, there are, I think there are going to be necessary changes to management and to breeding programs and everything else in order to do this and still keep cows that can survive in the Red Hills of Barber County and, and, uh, the Flint Hills and really any place we talk about
squadcaster-dgfg_1_02-05-2026_095819Yeah.
matt_1_02-05-2026_095820of, maybe, maybe some spots that are right next to a, uh, an ethanol plant or a grain facility or something that can feed them a little bit more energy and calories than what we can on Native Range most places.
squadcaster-dgfg_1_02-05-2026_095819Yeah. I mean, that'd be a huge problem here in county. There's no question about that.
matt_1_02-05-2026_095820Yep. So I had, uh, it's interesting, I've had a couple different podcast listeners, that made a suggestion for a podcast guest.
squadcaster-dgfg_1_02-05-2026_095819Sorry about that.
matt_1_02-05-2026_095820About that. Nope, you're good, you're good. I'm just impressed that, uh, here you consider yourself retired in quiet, uh, calm Barber County, Kansas, and yet you get as many phone calls during a podcast interview as, uh, as some of the most highly compensated execs that I've had on here. So obviously you're a busy guy, Dr. Carr. I love it. I love it. In that regard, you have been requested as a guest by multiple listeners of this podcast, uh, un unconnected. I might add that, that all lobbied for your inclusion on here and, and rightly so. I asked are there any good stories that I need to bring out and make sure he tells? And one of 'em said, I don't know if this is true, but I don't think he owned his own personal vehicle when he was at U of I. He always took public transit to work. And is that, be close?
squadcaster-dgfg_1_02-05-2026_095819Well, no, you, you,
matt_1_02-05-2026_095820No, you, you,
squadcaster-dgfg_1_02-05-2026_095819you are exactly right. Uh, we, we made the decision. Champaign Urbana had a great mass transit, district bus system. And, uh, I could get, I could get within a block and a half of the meat lab. So my wife and I made a decision, uh, we'll just have one vehicle and, I rode the bus.
matt_1_02-05-2026_095820Back
squadcaster-dgfg_1_02-05-2026_095819To work and being 50% extension state specialists and meats. Uh, we had a re, especially in the, in the seventies and eighties, we had a, uh, a really vibrant extension, program in animal sciences and with regional, specialists and, and state specialists. And, we were, we held a lot of meetings out in the state. And so between being a meat judging coach. Extension specialist. Uh, I spent about half my time and it seemed like an estate vehicle. So between the bus system and having a state vehicle going to extension meetings, I didn't have to worry about another vehicle
matt_1_02-05-2026_095820That's
squadcaster-dgfg_1_02-05-2026_095819to work.
matt_1_02-05-2026_095820Have you, uh,
squadcaster-dgfg_1_02-05-2026_095819Well have you, uh,
matt_1_02-05-2026_095820gotten the mass transit system in, uh, medicine Lodge up and running? Or have you had to buy a, buy a car or a truck now?
squadcaster-dgfg_1_02-05-2026_095819a new pair of tennis shoes and
matt_1_02-05-2026_095820Atta boy. There you go. Well, that's, uh, that saves some pennies, so you could buy a better chainsaw for cutting those, uh, those cedars down
squadcaster-dgfg_1_02-05-2026_095819you know, it, it, it, it, it's amazing really how much it did save us and, uh, uh,
matt_1_02-05-2026_095820yeah.
squadcaster-dgfg_1_02-05-2026_095819it was well, well worth it.
matt_1_02-05-2026_095820suburban America. Yeah. Yeah. That's, uh, that's a huge cost that of us have on a bottom line, especially if we have any extra vehicles sitting around when we figure in, especially today, insurance and everything else.
squadcaster-dgfg_1_02-05-2026_095819Oh my, yes.
matt_1_02-05-2026_095820was interesting. I was expecting some very, very pointed meat science type of a question that I needed to inquire about, and instead they said, I don't think he owned a personal vehicle. We had more. Yeah. Well, that's, that's good. And it makes it, it made sense then, and, and probably even more so today. Any other great stories or memories, whether it be from, coaching meets teams or teaching or just industry extension work that, uh, that you have, that you think would with listeners?
squadcaster-dgfg_1_02-05-2026_095819I, I, I had one, just an amazing thing happen to me. Uh, in, uh,
matt_1_02-05-2026_095820Uh,
squadcaster-dgfg_1_02-05-2026_0958191986, uh, I got a phone call from a, the Wall Street Journal. An editor of the Wall Street Journal and he said, I wanna do a story, on meats judging. He said, I called, uh, the, uh, livestock and meat board and they said for me to contact you and said, we wanna do it with a university that has had some success in this
matt_1_02-05-2026_095820in this
squadcaster-dgfg_1_02-05-2026_095819thing called meat judging, but is also, is involved in NCAA athletics. And I, I said, well, I said, you know, uh, we're not too good in football right here at the U of I. At that point in time, I said, uh, uh, you might wanna, you might wanna check with the University of Nebraska or something like that. And he said, well, no. He said, we, he said, I was told I really needed to talk to you. and I thought this was, this was gotta be a joke. And, and so anyway, he said, we, we exchanged numbers and stuff. And he said, I'd like to, I'd like to, to be at a contest with you. Go to go to the, the, the contest and kind interact with your team and stuff. Are you crazy? And, and so anyway, uh. we signed off and I thought that'd be the end of it. Well, he called and said, uh, this was in the spring semester and we didn't start, I didn't start my judging teams till the spring semester, and we would go to a couple spring contests, you know, just kind of get our feet wet. And, uh, we went to, to that point in time, the, the Great Plains invitation, which was held in, in, at Sioux Falls, South Dakota, and, go to the southeastern contest that would be in the southeastern part of the state in, uh, country in April. So, anyway, I'll be danged in, uh, February, this guy calls back up and he says, you remember me? I said, well, yeah. And, and, and so make a long story short, he, he goes and, and meets us, flies in to Sioux Falls, South Dakota, and he kind of goes with his contest. Of course, we're just started, this is our first contest. I, we may have been dead ass last, I don't remember. And, uh, anyway, he, he does a story and, uh, I'm driving from picking some pork carcass data up, from, a, uh, packing plant in Illinois. And I'm listening to WLS. And all of a sudden this guy comes on and says, you know, can you believe this in the Wall Street Journal, and, uh, son of a Gun, they had done a pencil caricature of me with my hard hat on frock on in the middle of a beef cooler and had written this story and matt, you cannot believe what all I heard
matt_1_02-05-2026_095820I heard.
squadcaster-dgfg_1_02-05-2026_095819from, from, from that, you know? And I find out, well, it's the first time a faculty member at the U of I had been on the front page of Wall Street Journal and I, I even got a phone call from, uh, from the football coach at that point in time. 'cause I made a statement that we probably won more contest than the football team had. And, and, uh, so anyway, uh, it, it was, uh, something I never dreamed would be such a, a big deal as it was. And, uh,, got a lot of, uh, I guess you'd say positive publicity, you know, out of that. But, uh, it did, uh, elevate intercollegiate meat judging., Somewhat, you know, because of that, that, that one article. And, uh,
matt_1_02-05-2026_095820uh,
squadcaster-dgfg_1_02-05-2026_095819but, uh, I was shocked. I said, and I about wrecked the car as I was driving, you know, with this guy came over the, the radio and said, can you believe this? And then I got into the office and, and my secretary said, my golly. He says, this phone's been ringing off the hook. Said everybody in the world's trying to get ahold of you. And it was quite the deal.
matt_1_02-05-2026_095820and in 1986, obviously you weren't carrying a cell phone and so you didn't know anything about it,
squadcaster-dgfg_1_02-05-2026_095819No. Had had no, no idea till I pulled into the, to the meat lab that there was anything going on at all, you know, and, but it was, it was front page of the Wall Street Journal.
matt_1_02-05-2026_095820Well, that's, that's awesome. And, and you know, even in today's day and age with social media and, and everybody having a camera and a, opportunity to, know, within seconds put something out there for the world to see. I, I think we have to recognize those opportunities and, and you obviously have through your years whether it be working with 4- H kids now, uh, whether it be being a four H kid back in the, uh, in the fifties and sixties, or even in between time when you were there at U of I and working with kids of all different areas and backgrounds and everything else, that opportunity to, as you said, elevate meats judging or elevate farming and ranching, or elevate agriculture or even ourselves. I, I think those are times that can't be missed. And,
squadcaster-dgfg_1_02-05-2026_095819Yes.
matt_1_02-05-2026_095820up without the least, understanding of why. But doing the things that you've done through the years, I think give, give a perfect opportunity for us to put that best foot forward because that's a story that people are wanting to hear and.
squadcaster-dgfg_1_02-05-2026_095819Yep.
matt_1_02-05-2026_095820better to tell it than than folks like you and, and, producers here in agriculture,
squadcaster-dgfg_1_02-05-2026_095819Yeah. You know, I, I, I follow a couple of, PO podcast. Janeal Yancy mom at the meet counter does a really neat job of, of answering consumer questions. And of course, she is a meat scientist at the University of Arkansas. But, uh, and she got her PhD at at, at k State and, and does a wonderful job. And then, Brandy Frobose, you know, I, in her buzzards beat, uh, I really enjoy. Following her and she gets in, she gets some pretty caustic comments from others as she, tries to promote, uh, beef and agriculture and in the right way. And, you know, I, I celebrate those young people that, that have the guts to step out there and, and, and to do that. And it, it is just like yourself, you know, uh, telling, telling the story, and there's a lot of negative stuff out there that, that has to be, uh, combated. And, and, uh, if you do it in a, in a right, right way, I think we can make some great inroads as far as educating our, our, our public is concerned.
matt_1_02-05-2026_095820Yep. I, I agree wholeheartedly and that's a big part of why we're doing it so I appreciate you being on here today, Dr. Carr. This has been a fun discussion and one I know that a lot of folks are gonna enjoy and appreciate and relate to as well. So thanks for your time and um, you better get back out there and cut a few more cedars in this good warm February weather.
squadcaster-dgfg_1_02-05-2026_095819Yep. It, it's always a battle. It's a continual battle. But, but Matt, thanks a bunch for this opportunity and uh, please tell your dad, Tom, for me.
matt_1_02-05-2026_095820it. Thanks a bunch. thanks for tuning in to Practically Ranching, brought to you by Dalebanks Angus. All the best to you and your family. May God bless each of you and we'll talk again soon. I.
